Talk the talk when will you walk the walk

Like others on here and I’m sure many who are not, I have given up entering events. I’ve entered the correct cat for myself, ‘B’, only to be passed by countless ‘D’ category riders putting out in excess of 4.5 w/kg - in one case, that crystallised my decision, one of them passed me at over 5 w/kg. The recovery argument is false and is known to be so. E-sports will only truly achieve their potential once this sandbagging is eliminated. It is ridiculous that people have to travel to a designated venue, be weighed and assigned a known trainer before competing in an internet-based activity. I still ride Zwift and will continue to do so but racing?, no, it’s a joke

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I’m new to zwift but have some experience cycling. ZwiftPower has me as a B, but barely so (just above 3.2 or 3.3 w/kg). I want to get better and don’t want to sandbag, but I see the temptation. As a very low B, I need to bring 100% just to hang in the race, and many days I don’t have that. I don’t care about winning/losing – I’d rather be near the bottom of B than the top of C – but if there aren’t many riders, I’m just going to get dropped instantly – which isn’t much fun. This wouldn’t be a problem if people were properly slotted. The truth is, when I don’t have 100% to give but still would like to enter an event, I’d have more fun in a C cat because I know how many sandbaggers there are – but I don’t because it just contributes to the problem.

So, I’ve found that I enjoy the open group rides (TdZ) and will likely try the E races next. No one can sandbag, there are plenty of groups to either try to catch up to, or fall back to if I can’t hang. Category is irrelevant. One could argue that offset start times for different cats offer little value anyway as crowding, passing, etc., just isn’t much of an issue in Zwift like it would be in the real world. After the first mile or hill, groups naturally form based largely on ability.

I hope zwift finds a way to improve the experience.

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Thanks for not sandbagging in cat C

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What’s the definition of “sandbagging”?

I’ve seen it used several times but it appears to have a different meaning.

  1. A rider from a higher category wants to enter a lower category for a recovery ride.
    This seems wrong and aren’t there social rides and training rides that serve this purpose?

  2. A very strong rider enters a lower category and wins but the effort is above the cat limits.
    That’s not sandbagging, that’s just cheating.

  3. A racer that stays in the front group ,expending the least amount of energy drafting off the other riders, and places well but remains below the cat limits.
    seems like that is racing.

If someone is constantly doing # 3, then that’s ok.
Racing is racing and as long as your in the correct cat, then so be it.

Zwift should auto assign riders based upon the 3 best rides (races) over the past 90 days.
Just like Zwift Power does.

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I basically accidentally won my C race on the NY stage race. I was the only legit C that made it to the end with the sandbaggers, I got absolutely shelled in the final Sprint and felt pretty bad about how rough the finish was, that is until I looked at zwiftpower and saw that all other legit racers were a minute back

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Not sure about it. Since there will be always someone in the bottom of the category in-between two levels. Very tricky one. One way is to create a personal category for each 1/100 w/kg ))), or…
But one thing is clear. The higher the category goes the bigger the meaning of those differences is.
Example: the Cat D difference between 2w/kg and 2.5 w/kg is not so big as trhe difference between 4.5w/kg and 5w/kg capability.
So definitely there is a need to split the A cat or make it one cat, but the final results should be split for A, A+ and A-pro, A-pro+ or something like this (One cat, but with separated final results - since it will be hard to find so many riders at higher lvl for different events). And yes, maybe the B cat also, but not sure about it…, people will always complain why they are not in the top of their cat and there should be a special group for their limits…(speaking as someone from the bottom of B group or top C )))).
__
But again, the same topic is discussed all over the forum:

Thus, the main questions is: how to stop dishonesty by using tech and/or different types of automated systems?
By the way, what about additional honesty reputation score?..

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Very clear and indicative example of in-game reality.

We still need a points based system and auto Cat selection by Zwift as far as I can see. Until this happens we will keep covering the same ground in these discussions.

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Hi Ward,
One thought… I’ll apologise before I start…
the other Cat C Zwifters in your group may feel that the race you talked about was ruined by illegal racers that you managed to keep with. Who Knows?

Zwift racing seems a bit of a mess.
They are fantastic workouts and excellent fun though.

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Hi Adam,
would a points based system solve all our problems or am I missing something? (as usual)

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1 + 2 are the real problem

I’m not sure Troy. Things could’ve been done in different way and manner - this is just a question of will, resources, global strategy etc…etc…etc… In those topics above, there are numbers of different interesting propositions by Zwift users.
Is it my call? )) I mean, we could discuss here in different topics, but the final word will be made by those who make those final decisions…I’m not among those people )). In addition, while we are speaking here, there is a big probability that things are already planned and executed in order to solve this issue and implement something in the future.

_--------

But we could rush those decisions and implementations, for example: let’s create First international Zwift Anti-sandbagging Discussion Congress, and as part of this First International Zwift Anti-sandbagging Discussion Congress let’s create a First International Virtual Cycling Zwift Anti-sandbagging Resolution.
*(all this, of courseÉ with a small sense of humour, but why not? :wink:)

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I agree with you Troy, the race was ruined because of the sandbaggers, me being the highest ranked legit finisher doesn’t mean those guys didn’t ruin the thing. Not offended by that comment at all

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Having only the legit cat racers in the event will allow for much more a need to try and use race tactics, attacking at the right time to make a break, chasing down attacks, etc… and that is much more fun than killing yourself just to hold onto a wheel of someone way faster that shouldn’t be there.

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It would be nice to think that Zwift are reading and discussing the issues that Zwifters are putting forward on this forum. A little feed back would be welcome.

It doesn’t take much to disillusion the most loyal of Zwifters, if nothing ever happens or improves. I guess we have to modify our expectations and remind ourselves of the positive aspects of Zwift as a whole, to avoid it.

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I have not said much about it but the Splitting of the B Cat seems like a real smart idea and one that could go into effect with the very next up grade.

That would encourage people to self-police.

I raced in a TdZ cat D today. A bit shocked and disheartened to have a Tron bike race past at 4w/kg at the KofM section. The rider then obvs slowed down as their finish time was a very carefully managed under 2.4w/kg. I don’t know why people do this? To get the KoM jersey? It is totally demotivating for cat D riders.

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which kind of makes your win illegit because you were in the draft of those outside your category. Right?

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I realize this was directed at someone else… but yeah, both the category the sandbaggers are in, as well as the category they should have been in, have potentially altered outcomes as a result. Still, DQing the offenders and leaving the rest of the results as-is seems about the only reasonable thing to do.

This is why I feel it’s such a big problem. If all those sandbaggers pulling to win in C cat were otherwise in B (hypothetically) that might’ve been a group I’d otherwise be with — So maybe my last place B is invalid, too. :slight_smile:

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Sure I was faster down the road because of the over category riders but I’m not live checking zwiftpower to see who to draft and who to let go…

I was able to take advantage, but I was also the only legit C strong enough to do it, some less experienced racers don’t understand how critical is us to push hard at the start

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