Talk the talk when will you walk the walk

Auto assign people to correct categories….how hard can that be?
I listened to a podcast with @Jon_Mayfield talking about people who ride in a lower category during a race as a recovery ride etc, he did not see the problem as long as they did not have an impact on the racers in that category…well guess what Jon they do, maybe if you enter a few events in the lower categories you would see the problem. I have just raced in Zwift’s very own Tour de Zwift stage 5 race, 106 finishers in D and 64 put out over 2.5w/kg, your description for D 1-2.4.
Still waiting for you to walk the walk…………………

Yes, really winds me up that argument - enter a lower cat as a recovery ride. Just enter the right cat and hang at the back. Simples. It’s the sandbaggers perfect excuse. Racing on zwift is becoming more and more of a joke - The recent pro am races showed this. Zwift are apparently wanting a UCI sanctioned event and going to the Olympics. All great and can be somewhat controlled in a staged environment but jeez, if they can’t even auto assign categories and resolve some of the obviously blatant cheating they are going to look like a joke.

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If they’re in the race, they have an impact. Even if it’s just a body for someone else to daft behind.

The only time there’s no impact is if they sit in the starting pens for a few minutes then ride behind everyone else. In which case they might as well just ride outside of the race context.

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Look at Tour de Zwift stage 5 race C cat.

If you look at every one above 3.2w/kg (3.37 * 0.95 = 3.2). I used 3.37 as the upper limit to adjust for 20 FTP.

The true winner was 7th over the line and the true 10th place was over #33 over the line.

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It’s ok @Gerrie_Delport you don’t need to hide my name, I proudly took the win! :crazy_face:

:ride_on:

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Looks like you have got yourself a new job Gerrie. :slightly_smiling_face:
It’s a dirty job but someones got to do it.

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I don’t buy into the recovery ride explanation either.

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No thanks to Zwift Power we don’t have to do that.

Interesting fact is of those that are in the Real top 10 only 2 of them is not on Zwift Power.

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Is that a Mike Rowe pun? :rofl:

I wonder how many of us are hooked up to Zwift Power now. Looking at that result you posted only 8 out of 33 for that race. The numbers are increasing slowly I guess.
Maybe Zwift should auto join us to ZP but give us the option to opt out if necessary?

Not sure Mike, but if you liked it then yes. :slightly_smiling_face:

The time/effort and money they put into hosting/running a Zwift pro/am event and yet the smallest of changes to help with the running of same events for us nobodies goes ignored all the time

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Using similar calculation but for the D’s there was 46 out of 106 who did in excess of 2.64 in D class with the top dog doing 4.12. Zwiftpower 1st place finished 19th but earned an upgrade to a C rider and Zwiftpower 10th place finished 51st.

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The sandbagging is getting so absurd that in the last Crit City race I did the winner of C cat finished in a faster time than the winner of B cat.

I’ve posted this before but I think Zwift needs to do the following:

Add OPEN category races. These would be just like TdZ group rides. Everyone starts together and where you finish is where you finish. No categories. The fact is a lot of Zwift races are already like this but we have to select a category. The only time you actually know where you finish in your category is if you look up the results afterwards. There’s no point in having categories if everyone starts together so get rid of them. It will make it impossible to sandbag and if someone wants to do a recovery ride in a race then they can enter an OPEN race.

Add CATEGORY races with enforceable limits. Use the Zwift Power method of the average of your 3 best 20 minute times over the last 90 days or some other method but assign a category to each rider and only let that rider enter their assigned category or above. Races should be run like TdZ races, that is, keep riders separate so people can’t draft off higher cat groups and so that people actually know where they are placed within their category.

If Zwift doesn’t want to be the bad guy then let race organisers choose to have enforceable entry limits when they setup races. If someone wants a cheap win then they can enter a CATEGORY race where the limits are not enforced while those who want a fair race can enter a race where the limits are enforced. I can guarantee you the races where limits are enforced will be a lot more popular.

Finally, split B category into 2. I think the biggest cause of sandbagging is people in the 3.2 to 3.5 w/kg range who simply can’t keep up with the front of B cat so they drop down into C. This then causes people in C cat to drop into D cat and then the people in D cat quit racing altogether.

And while we are adding categories why not add a sub 2.0w/kg for the beginners/slow people?

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is zwift riding zwift?

We know Eric Min does

Check out Eric Min on Strava

Like others on here and I’m sure many who are not, I have given up entering events. I’ve entered the correct cat for myself, ‘B’, only to be passed by countless ‘D’ category riders putting out in excess of 4.5 w/kg - in one case, that crystallised my decision, one of them passed me at over 5 w/kg. The recovery argument is false and is known to be so. E-sports will only truly achieve their potential once this sandbagging is eliminated. It is ridiculous that people have to travel to a designated venue, be weighed and assigned a known trainer before competing in an internet-based activity. I still ride Zwift and will continue to do so but racing?, no, it’s a joke

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I’m new to zwift but have some experience cycling. ZwiftPower has me as a B, but barely so (just above 3.2 or 3.3 w/kg). I want to get better and don’t want to sandbag, but I see the temptation. As a very low B, I need to bring 100% just to hang in the race, and many days I don’t have that. I don’t care about winning/losing – I’d rather be near the bottom of B than the top of C – but if there aren’t many riders, I’m just going to get dropped instantly – which isn’t much fun. This wouldn’t be a problem if people were properly slotted. The truth is, when I don’t have 100% to give but still would like to enter an event, I’d have more fun in a C cat because I know how many sandbaggers there are – but I don’t because it just contributes to the problem.

So, I’ve found that I enjoy the open group rides (TdZ) and will likely try the E races next. No one can sandbag, there are plenty of groups to either try to catch up to, or fall back to if I can’t hang. Category is irrelevant. One could argue that offset start times for different cats offer little value anyway as crowding, passing, etc., just isn’t much of an issue in Zwift like it would be in the real world. After the first mile or hill, groups naturally form based largely on ability.

I hope zwift finds a way to improve the experience.

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Thanks for not sandbagging in cat C

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What’s the definition of “sandbagging”?

I’ve seen it used several times but it appears to have a different meaning.

  1. A rider from a higher category wants to enter a lower category for a recovery ride.
    This seems wrong and aren’t there social rides and training rides that serve this purpose?

  2. A very strong rider enters a lower category and wins but the effort is above the cat limits.
    That’s not sandbagging, that’s just cheating.

  3. A racer that stays in the front group ,expending the least amount of energy drafting off the other riders, and places well but remains below the cat limits.
    seems like that is racing.

If someone is constantly doing # 3, then that’s ok.
Racing is racing and as long as your in the correct cat, then so be it.

Zwift should auto assign riders based upon the 3 best rides (races) over the past 90 days.
Just like Zwift Power does.

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