Stop race category cheats - opinions?


(Chris) #1

I’d like zwift to re-categorise racers on their average w/kg to the correct category. Its pretty clear that in some zwift races, people are dishonest about which category they should be in and win their races by a mile. Its not a big deal for some (including me), but others use their results and points for possible team and sponsorship deals.

I’ve asked zwift support about this, and their response was essentially “we rely on honesty, but clearly this is flawed and we have no plan to change it at the moment. If it gets some traction in the forums, we might take more notice…”

So, what do people think? (I’ve posted this in the feature request section too.)


Stop race category cheats
(Jim) #2

Seems like this would be fairly simple for Zwift to implement and would add legitimacy to the results.

I’d look at Zwiftpower as they seem to sort the results but not everyone is registered there so they’re not really accurate.


(Fez) #3

I look at it slightly differently. If a person is not registered on Zwiftpower then they do not count in the race results from my point of view. It is not a secret that Zwift infused some cash into Zwiftpower to keep the lights on to cooincide with the KISS super leagues. The other problem is that Zwift itself wants to be inclusive to all people who want to exercise and that means accepting classic trainers as a perfectly legitimate tool to get fit. When it comes to racing, don’t bother signing up because your classic trainer doesn’t have the accuracy to be considered legitimate. This where a marginal third party actually makes sense in some respects. Maybe in the long term, if enough people actually come to care about eRacing, cycling federations will take part in the process of verification with respect to racing online along with the UCI or something (meaning help pay for it). Maybe Zwift can figure out how to merge those two different business models but in the meantime for those of us who are merely human and like to race we either have to ignore the 50 people who averaged 4.3-4.5 wattz in a C level race or check out Zwiftpower to see how you did.


(Paolo) #4

Opinions?
My opinion is that w/kg categories are at least as st***d as they feel. Get rid of …

Paolo


(Gary Putlock) #5

I agree with your suggestion. Race results should be categorized by actual w/kg regardless of registered category. That would eliminate any benefit of cheating and motivate all racers to improve and achieve a higher category - which I think is the objective.


(Adam) #6

Well…cheating is something that demands control. And when speaking about virtual gaming the “path to cheating” becomes easier than in real life. So…, with all due respect to all, but “rely on honesty” is a a very honest position ))), but contradicts slightly with the reality and the so-called “social-mass behavior”.

I do think that there should be some mechanism, automated one. Also, maybe something close to search-engines algorithms with the automated analysis of users past behavior vs present.
In addition, it would be really great to have ONE system and not some third party website where the users should go to check their results, although…even with the third party tool it could be good in case if the integration is made inside Zwift directly.

Bottom line: it would be great to have a smart-type of system categorization. And I do not think that average w/kg categorization could be consider as a “smart system”.
I would take more data than just average w/kg (lets say in past 30 days). Maybe also last 10 races positions vs types of rides in those races. Could be wrong, but I think that Zwiftpower already has in place some type of parameter with the “race difficulty” - since different races have different difficulties even if those races are in same category. But not sure what is included in the “difficulty parameter”, is it just riders, or maybe the distance + elevation also?..


(Tim Camden (B)) #7

Zwift could continue their present “open to all” policy but allow the race organizers to enforce w/kg standards for the racing groups.
But the problem is Zwift’s current FTP is modifiable from the users settings page.
I have modified mine when I wanted to change my workout difficulty.
I found I could do the same by sliding the workout bar while in the workout.
But, the point is, Zwift would have to monitor FTP, make non user modified, and allow organizer to apply a restriction PRIOR to the race.
ZwiftPower does it after the race.
I think this would be easy to implement.


(Bhaltair Gruamach [DIRT]) #8

Something really should to be done about this. In a recent race the first three finishers in Cat “C” averaged 4.0, 4.3, and 4.1 w/kg. That’s nearly Cat “A”. I burned a lot of matches attempting to keep up, blew up with a lap to go, then got caught by the group I should have been racing with with about 1 km to go.

If Zwift won’t automatically put riders in the appropriate category, maybe there could at least be an identifier for racers who are riding out-of-category. If the riders average is 110% of the category limit a “cone of Category Limit Exceeded” appears so other racers know who they need to chase, and who they can ignore. Maybe the cone appears after 10 minutes of racing and becomes a rolling average at that point…?


(Gerrie Delport TeamODZ) #9

YES YES and YES.

I think that more people will do races if Zwift auto categorize racers. Zwift can use the ZP ranking system for racers that have a ZP profile and for those that don’t there best FTP and highest weight over the last 3 months will be used.

This will make racing exiting again.

KISS started to use only one starting group and filtering after the race based on ZP assigned Category this is a step in the right direction, but if this could be done before the race start it will be a lot better.


(Bhaltair Gruamach [DIRT]) #10

Thread for this in Feature Requests:

https://forums.zwift.com/t/auto-assign-race-categories/14243