Post-Race Discussion Template & Guidelines

As bike racers, we cherish the post-race discussion in the parking lot of the local crit or the chats over coffee after the group ride, and we want to honor those rituals here on our forum.

Now that the ZwiftPower forums are read-only, we want to bring that discussion here. Our forum has some differences in structure, so we ask you to bear with us as we refine this process. This is a community experience, and community feedback will be valued.

When creating a new race discussion thread, follow this template and keep these guidelines in mind as the discussion progresses:

Subject Line:

  • For discussion about individual races
    Post-Race: [RACE NAME - RACE DATE - (optional) GENDER]
    Ex: Post-Race [3R Tick Tock Flat Race - 20 Jan 2021 - Women]

  • For discussion about a GC or league:
    GC/League: [GC/League Name - Season - (optional) GENDER]
    Ex: GC/League: [6Points Mallorca League - Winter '21 - Men]

When discussing the race or the league, please remember these guidelines:

  1. Posts or comments directly targeting or accusing another racer of cheating based on power, heart rate, weight, height, gender, category, or any other factor will not be tolerated and will be removed.

  2. Discussion about variances in personal performance or helping others understand their variances from race to race are welcome, and helping one another is encouraged. Again, this is not fuel to accuse one another of cheating. We handle those conversations offline using the procedure in this thread.

  3. Any discussion which culminates in accusatory or inflammatory language, is demeaning in nature, is directly meant to incite, or is otherwise intentionally mean will not be tolerated and will be removed.

  4. Remember the human element to all of this. We are here to have spirited, engaging, and fun discussion about racing that we all care about, and each comment is from a real person. Don’t say on the forum what you wouldn’t say in person.

If you are newer to the ZwiftPower scene - many of your questions are answered on our ZwiftPower FAQ.

the old zwiftpower version had a link to discussion right on the zwiftpower race page, which makes the most sense. actually it wasn’t i link but opened a dialogue box so you could see the discussion without leaving the race page. would this be possible now? otherwise i don’t see many people leaving zwiftpower to go to the forum page to do a search and hope that the poster formatted the subject correctly.

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Could you change the ZwiftPower ‘Comments’ link on the race page and link back to these forums with that format title auto-generated, or find such a titled thread if already exists?
Asking people to do that manually is going to either not happen or turn into a mess with half a dozen started threads for the same race before they notice each other.

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@josh_flanagan_slowtw and @Craig_Martin_Herd
We agree with you - we’re looking into more elegant ways to create that post-race hangout.

For now, we ask that someone manually create a new thread following this template. It’s far from ideal, but on the plus side - it’s immediately doable.

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I assume discussions on obvious sandbaggers who know what they are doing is fine then? Like someone highlighted in the ‘signed up in wrong category’ tab on Zwiftpower, and has competed in various races.
They need to be called out and shamed into competing in the right category - that’s all there is to combat it at the moment.

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@Michael_Sparshatt_F3
No. Assuming guilt of sandbagging isn’t the way we want to operate here.

This is a new muscle we’re asking everyone to exercise. If you feel a need to call someone out for cheating, use the form referenced above so the Zwift team can handle it offline. You still get to call someone out, but we avoid the back-and-forth public hostility that inevitably degrades into a giant flame war.

Would you give this new way of reporting cheaters a try?

Thanks for your reply, and I will certainly try and use this where appropriate.

When you say ‘Assuming guilt of sandbagging’, that implies the sort of cases where a rider may be ignorant of their actions, new to Zwift, or have miscalibrated equipment. These people deserve patience and leeway.

In cases where there are serial sandbaggers (like a race I was in tonight), what is likely to happen to them if they are reported?

I think a lot of the racing community feel a bit beaten down and jaded at big promises but little tangibly changing with stuff like this. It’s got really bad this winter, even in B grade where I am. Much worse in C and D which turns new racers away, and undermines the credibility of it all.

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Thanks for understanding @Michael_Sparshatt_F3. We get that the community racers feel beaten down and we’re doing our part to improve things.

That form gives us visibility on who the repeat offenders are. Zwift HQ didn’t have a way to track that prior to this form, but now we do. Identification of bad behavior is the first step. As we build more data points through your reports - that allows us to make informed choices about appropriate actions.

And I’m glad you agree that we want to cut slack to those who don’t know yet - the newbies, those riding on inherently inaccurate equipment, and so on - having Zwift staff deliver that news allows us to inform and educate in a much more friendly way. This piece of it is even more important to growing a larger, healthier racing community.

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They’re paying customers, so I think we all know the answer from now on.

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Didn’t realise the new system had been going for a few months, to what looks like not much coming from it? How thoroughly depressing.

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few months and nothing seems to happen when you submit a feedback form. They won’t give you an answer or explain anything so you have no idea if it’s even been looked at or any rider data verified. in the same way zada was used to check riders we need some sort of indicator that a rider has been verified to remove question after question over the same riders.

This has led to race organisers/sticky doing more race enforcement but now we have the removal of any way to discuss events without some ridiculous process of searching zwift forums to see if a thread has been created and the hope that somebody else might find it.

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i’m happy to use the form if necessary, but there isn’t much to report in my category. i do find it fascinating to watch the C drama though. there is a certain legendary sandbagger i have read about, when i see him upgraded to B i’ll believe it is working. otherwise, as dave pointed out, there is an obvious conflict of interest shaping things.

This doesn’t inspire much hope for the future of e-racing (on Zwift).

Social control is what kept racing on Zwift somewhat fair (and hence, fun). Without it, it would never have evolved to what it is now. Taking away the option to (politely) flag suspect performances publicly, effectively eliminates any form of social control. Unfortunately, it has been made clear over the past weeks Zwift doesn’t address the issues raised through the form you linked to above. I fear intentional cheaters (let’s not be naive - there’s plenty of them) will feel emboldened by recent decisions, and soon will start to dominate the ranking boards again.

Don’t underestimate how important it is to the motivation of the vast majority of racers on Zwift, to at least have the feeling they are competing in a level playing field that somehow mimics real life ability. If that goes lost, I’m afraid e-racing on Zwift will go lost with it.

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Of course, we want to give your form a try, but during the first few months, there was zero evidence that claims actually had any result whatsoever? Surely, you must understand that this is not a great start, to motivate people to continue using it…

You seem surprised that, when you leave the entire system of checking fairness in a sports competition to a decentralized community, and do nothing about it yourself, it escalates into mob-lynches from time to time. Blaming your core user base about what is effectively the result of Zwift’s inaction, is ironic at best, and insulting at worst.

It’s really quite absurd that on the one hand, Zwift puts so much effort and money into profiling themselves as the next generation way of doing sport, while at the same time, for years, there has been no action at all when it comes to enforcing the rules of the game at the basis. Last time I checked, rules (and their enforcement) were pretty important in the concept of sport.

But as I said many times before: introduce a point-based classification system with enforced categories, and you will eliminate 80% (if not more) of all race/performance related discussions… (but I guess it’s easier to just buy-out a public forum and shut down all debate :smile: )

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I tots get where you are coming from. This is constructive criticism. Last year, Zwifters taking part in TdZ could elect to participate in rides or in races. This year, races were axed. This is not random. This is by design.

We all know what happens after a company accepts wallops of venture capital and hires a Chief product Officer with a rap sheet of taking companies public… Expect deafening silence. I’d love to be proven wrong, but if smells like a duck, looks like a duck and…

The writing on the wall is pretty obvious: Zwift racing is on its deathbed.

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Post-Race: OH MY CRIT! - The Double Race 1/2 and 2/2 - 21/01/2021
In previous weeks we saw a dq code for podium finishers for not uploading dual recording (NODUAL) in this beautiful race series.
How come this week this was not implemented?
Regards

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You are correct.

Race results used to be curated by the fine folks at ZwiftPower. Zwift Power has since been acquired by Zwift. Zwift has made it abundantly clear that they do not care about racing. They care even less about fair racing.

Some technical issues have prevented the results being updated. I will update them as soon as possible.

2 Likes