Spot on. 
Right, yeah I see what you mean. I do definitely agree. But thereās still a stickiness. Take an MMORPG guild for example; the guild might play for 6 months on a PVP and then decide to re-roll on a PVE server. While itās a group of friends, some will oppose the move because their characters are level 50 and they have some good gear. Not to mention other friends on that server from other guilds who wonāt be moving.
In the past I split a forum community by being the person who said āsod you lot, Iām setting up somewhere else.ā A load of people followed me, some stayed behind. So yes, I absolutely agree groups might move en masse, but it still has to be a compelling move. They wonāt do it on a whim, I expect.
Overall I think weāre on the same page.
Right on, Duane! You nailed it.
Also, Iām amazed at how people took more issue with my (poor) choice of wording by using the word, ādemand,ā rather than focus on the actual issue here. So quick to get defensive for Zwift, and for what?
I stand by my statement that the community makes the product, not vice versa. If Zwift doesnāt care or want to listen to the community and a viable alternative emerges, the community will have the option to leave and Zwift will be a shell of what it currently is.
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You have to marvel at the model thoughā¦ itās a work of genius! Build an online gaming platform out of a few fictitious roads and add a stopwatch. Have bike and kit manufacturers pay for their products to appear digitally (and no doubt some connection to game speed on money).
Then get hundreds of thousands of enthusiastic people to form a community, design and run events, races and rides that entertain the community yet take hours (in some cases) of hard work by said individuals while you just provide a means for those people to adjust race settings etc, have some brilliant guys crack an API, contract them for not a lot so that they can develop a system that can manage (to a large extent) some officiallity to races and lots of amazing data for every event, introduce teams etcā¦ let others do a lot of the hard work and brain power and then charge us all for the privilege. Add people to talk about new developments and do tests, other sites etc springing up too which is all free or fairly cheap at least marketingā¦
This is not sarcasm in any way at all - it is Total genius by Zwift. Hats off in every way possible.
A huge huge huge thank you to @Glen_Knight and @James_Hodges_KRT for the tireless hours of work and dealing with us lot to make indoor cycling so much more interesting! Top guys!
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I think itās both. The product needs the community, for sure. But a community tends not to coalesce around a product that doesnāt have much of what the community wants and needs. Maybe not all of it - almost certainly not all of it - but enough of it to make it worth them putting their efforts into trying to build a community around that product.
Of course, it takes leaders. People whoāl drive it forwards; else itās just a bunch of people. The Zwift community is what it is because of a much smaller set of people whoāve got up and done something to drive it forwards. Glen and James for sure, and the people who came before them in the race data community. Eric Schlange, Rob Bolt, Sterny, those sorts of people.
If someone who can stand as a figurehead decides to jump ship, they can certainly take a lot of people with them. Like Moses leading people to the promised land or something. =) But if that promised land is a desert, people are gonna look and say ānah, grass is greener over here mate.ā
(I guess an alternative is that the platform providers do all of thatā¦)
Austin Powers - 100 billion dollars - YouTube , here is the announcement!
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To pour kerosene on the fire, it hasnāt been long since āthe takeoverā and it already looks like thereās been a screw up: after submitting photo/evidence of weight for a Zwift-organised race (Toir de Bouddica), a couple of riders have noticed changes made to their weight settings on ZwiftPower.
This seems like unauthorised access to personal data to meā¦ by Zwift. And, given their passwords have been accessed, this could compromise part or all of their online data (depending on whether they use the same or similar password elsewhere).
Pretty serious ā ā ā ā , at least if youāre in Europe.
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I think you meant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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If these rumors are true, then it is a very very good signal, if nothing else. Great news!
Why? Because it signals that Zwift is willing to take full responsibility over race results and hence over cheating. And this, potentially, paves the way for a better race category system.
You cannot have a third party decide what is cheating and what is not on a game platform like Zwift. The platform itself must ensure fair and clean racing.
Weāre not allowed to link or Iād point you in the direction of my blog over at Blogspot for further comments on this.
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Bumping this up to a) let them know we are still waiting and to b) hold zwift accountable for what they said they would do.
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I guess they donāt like defining terminology. Either way, I hope Zwift does integrate Zwiftpower into the app and take responsibility for race data and outcomes.
Some Zwifters might say that Zwift have enough on their plate without taking on even more issues.
I think at least one Zwifter whom I follow, who shall remain nameless, has, I believe, expressed that view.
Is that vague enough.
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I think based on other forum posts here we donāt need an announcement about the fact that a takeover happened any more. It happened. Zwift is now āsolely responsible for Zwiftpowerā. So without any other info we might as well start speculating about the future.
So there are two possibilities going forward imo:
- Zwift thinks community racing is just for fun. Recent comments in a podcast could make someone fear thatās the case. So they would shut ZP down but wonāt change anything on their results system (except maybe anti-sandbagging) which will stay the wild-wild-west like it is at the moment (all equipment and no HR allowed, no verification of exceptional performances).
- Zwift integrates ZP in some way. It uses the 8 people now working full time at Zada based on an article out there to verify performances in all races. With this comes the responsibility which MMOs always have taken to ban and punish customers who havenāt followed the rules. You would need a possibility to appeal those decisions and for racers and organizers to report possible cheaters and maybe a lot of other stuff I havenāt yet thought about.
Whatever they decide - Until now everyone could be happy. Guys riding on bad equipment, with wrong weight or just in for a casual crush of Cs at 4/kg could race and behave as if they won. Racers interested in serious results could look at Zwiftpower and behave as if all those other stuff never happened. This phase is now over. Most responsibility for every result and rule will be solely on Zwift.
The word ādemandā will be used a lot going forward. People will demand a win because the guy in first lost 3kg since monday. Others will demand to get reinstated since they send a weight video but itās not clear if this is the person in question.
Racing season hasnāt really ended but it will start in 2-3 months again. All the best.
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I donāt understand the thought that āuntil now everyone could be happy.ā Sandbaggers distort the flow of the race. Just removing their placings after the end of the race does not eliminate the effect they had on the race and the legitimate participants.
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Yep, they still have an impact. Itās not uncommon to see individuals on ZP finishing several minutes ahead of the rest of the pack - thereās literally no chance they could have made that stick on their own with no drafting, AND whilst staying within the category boundaries. They were able to keep up with some sandbaggers at the point(s) at which the pack was split, thatās all. Iāve been both the victim and beneficiary of this situation, neither felt good.
ZwiftPower is a fantastic resource but it doesnāt solve the problem. Never did, and never could. Only Zwift can do that.
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Completely agreeā¦ all of this "Iām a paying customer and I demand yadda yadda yadda crap gets tired very quickly.
If you donāt like it ā quit. Go play another game. Trust Zwift to handle their product.
Jeesh ā weāre adults here, not 7-year-olds throwing tantrums on the playground.
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Caveat emptor, quia ignorare non debuit quod jus alienum emit.
The assumption is that buyers will inspect and otherwise ensure that they are confident with the integrity of the product (or land, to which it often refers) before completing a transaction.
These monthly purchasers of Zwift products are being wary. Trust can be earned, and trust can be lost.
However, since no potential competitor has the pool of users that Zwift has, and that pool is a critical part of the Zwift product, there is nothing comparable to turn to. Telling people that they can just switch to another cycling MMO game is less realistic than telling a American to just get another broadband provider if they donāt like their current ISP.
Iām also surprise that someone who is [helpfully] telling Zwift to replace their w/kg categories with a superior race categorization is telling people that Zwift will optimize everything just fine without input from the users.
There is a difference between suggesting enhancements in a new feature request forum, and sanctimoniously demanding stuff ābecause Iām a paying customer.ā
Thereās plenty of racing on RGT. Thereās way more climbs on FullGaz. And those are just two that Iāve tried: thereās others Iāve seen people reference.
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I understand the perspective on ādemanding.ā
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Having used seven or eight other cycling applications I havenāt found any with anything remotely like the number of concurrent users on Zwift. That includes three other apps in the last few months.
Read āhappyā as ānot canceling subscriptionā. For sure a much harder stance on sandbagging and bad setups would have always been welcome. But at least legitimate racers had SOME results sheet showing them first and allowing them to celebrate a good result with their teammates.
Just imagine a Zwift without Zwiftpower and the very big majority of Zwifters would be way unhappier. And the cheaters would be way unhappier if they got kicked, banned, sanctioned I guess. Thatās all I was implying.
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