You are correct and that reflects another issue.
Should Zwift power show our race stats or ride stats?
There’s lots of things that have evolved to be but weren’t planned.
Zwift should revisit (or visit) these issues.
Both count towards our 1, 5 and 20 minute power profile therefore they would need to be shown.
I’m a lighter rider as well, but my TD has always been at 50%.
This is just so that I don’t run out of gears on the Radio Tower etc.
I had no idea that this affected my speed going downhill.
On the rare occasions that I do group rides, I get dropped going downhill every time.
I thought that this was just the game mimicking real life.
IRL, I’m good at climbing, but terrible at descending.
On my club rides, I’m nearly always in the lead group going up, but then get passed going downhill just as frequently.
I probably won’t change the TD setting because I’m fine with the way things are.
I’ve only raced once or twice, and only in beginner events.
It’s obvious that cheating/weight doping/sandbagging is rampant in Zwift races, but this latest way of cheating is something that didn’t cross my mind as a way to gain an advantage.
I use Zwift mostly for structured workouts & solo rides, occasionally I join a group ride.
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Just to be clear the lower the TD the more resistance you will have to push against when on a descent making it easier to stay with a group. I asked on feature requests that whatever TD is set to for inclines it remains locked for descents so all riders are on the same % for descents.
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I’m afraid that you’ll probably still get dropped on descents no matter your TD, because it does help to be on the heavier side when descending in Zwift
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GP Lama demonstrated that changing the trainer difficulty did in fact change the gradient and the gradient of the descent is half the gradient of the ascent.
EDIT
let me correct that.
In game, no change.
The difference is what is sent to the kicker climb.
My error again.
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No you are correct with your initial reply descent gradients are halved in game to help stop running out of gear it does also half the gradient on Kickr climb and Kickr bike.
There is a way to get the Climb to go up at X% instead of 1/2 of X% with the TD set at 50%.
Double the wheelbase in the Wahoo App.
I have used this from day one.
Doesn’t help me on the descents though.
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Help yourself with a cookie, you’re doing Zwifts homework. I’ve seen no valid arguments against any of the suggestions here. Only a steadily growing list of workarounds for other missing features that are based on this not being fixed.
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Lines like these make me look for the missing “dislike” button. That word “explicitly” there needs some citation and scrutiny.
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Good point. You could argue they’re implicitly not races in some cases. 
However, for many group rides Zwift will tell you that they are explicitly not a race in the ride description or related forum post.
You’ll no doubt have seen many rides with an FAQ question that asks “Is this a race?” with the answer “No…”
Here’s an example: Women's Ride and Run Series 2022 FAQ
Is this a race?
No. These women-only events are socially-paced community rides and runs intended to uplift and encourage women around the world. Ride, run, and connect with the women’s community in-game and IRL.
I guess it can be argued either way whether something like this is implicit or explicit:
Q: Will there be races during the Tour?
A: No, but you are welcome to ride as fast as you like. These are group events and event results won’t be displayed at the end.
(From the https://support.zwift.com/tour-of-watopia-faq-HyMHyrO1c)
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confusion comes when you get things like this with the rapha rising:
IS THIS A RACE?
Yes and no. While this is meant to be a unique challenge that puts your legs and lungs to the test over three tough stages, you’re welcome to participate in the General Classification—just register on ZwiftPower prior to the challenge.
its either a race or it isn’t, people getting dq’d for racing lower than their zwiftpower cat being dq’d will confuse people as we have found on here
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Exactly. I remember at some point such events would have a group ride and a race option. At some point they dropped the races from all(?) the big events, which turned the group rides in to races implicitly. Because we all want to race. And even more, we don’t want to lose races. So we race group rides. If we win, it’s been a race. Otherwise, we were just casually hanging out. A bit like on the road. Only that over there you’ll get your beer and your cheesecake anyway.
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This thread may reach well into the thousands which is unbelievable 
there was a exploit to change height and weight during a ride which has been fixed so I would have thought no more discussion required 
. We seemed to have moved the discussion on to actual weight and group ride weight which common sense would suggest they would be the same however it seems having the two the same is unfair for some riders 
. Has anyone ever considered allowing a rider to use two weights on Zwift what would be the consequence of that rider deciding to ride outdoors what happens then what weight will be used yes correct actual weight. The said rider struggles to cycle any inclines which is confusing as they managed on Zwift wait they were using their group ride weight 
reality hits them hard. I said previously this notion of allowing two weights is not helping anyone especially not the rider you think you are if you have no fitness no one expects to ride with people who have been cycling for weeks / months prior. There are meet ups available for new riders who generally join as a recommendation of a friend this and free rides is how they can start and slowly build up fitness or Zwift need to expand its group rides for 0.5 - 1.0 w/kg. I have plenty of friends that are unfit I have tried to get them onto Zwift if they do eventually join I know for a fact if I told them they can alter their weight to join group rides there is no way they would do it as they would class this as cheating.
This is the biggest thing I hate about paying 12.99p/m on Zwift to race cheater.
Totally agree that there should be a different categories for group rides and races.
Preparing for IRL rides I try to Zwift in Z1, but the only way I can do this and still join my groups is to lower my weight. Zwifting on your own is tough. The social aspect is what keeps me going. group rides are not races, the fences also keep everyone in the group. your ftp and your weight are then irrelevant.
I don’t know the answer.
I have argued in the past for a weight bias slider to allow people to ride in groups.
This bias could be turned off for races.
But , what happens during a TOW event where it’s not a race but people race?
Maybe a bike frame that has a weight bias slider. Certain frames can be excluded from certain events, like no TT bikes in TOW.
We can already change bikes to add or remove difficulty thru rolling resistance etc but it is a blunt and awkward hit or miss process and many people don’t use this option.
The answer is the rubberband feature… which, I will add is absolutely horrendous and confusing to group rides I might add; confusing being the problem with it.
I don’t have an answer or anything to really add, other than what I presume “the answer” to the “problem” is the rubberband, but all that does is mean you can put down 1000w and still move with the group until you stop, or put in a measily 50w and also move with the group, really putting the rider in a super confusing “what pace do I even pedal?” area.
It was tried once with one of my team’s weekly rides, and it … was a horrendous situation, and I’m fairly positive any new riders we had that day (which is now… months behind us), are never coming back because it was such an awful experience.
And when people drop out of the pack with rubberband enabled? There’s … literally nothing that can be done to get them back (which again is another thing that makes rubberband a horrendous feature for group rides).
queue some rambling:
For what it’s worth however, I am 100% against ‘weight doping’ or even blatantly putting in the wrong weight in Zwift to get a different outcome, even if it is just for group riding. It ruins the motive to me, and what makes… at least the group rides my team offers, certainly not others… encouraging others, and getting to watch people improve.
I watched someone that joined our group rides earlier this year complete Mega Pretzel this morning with my group, and was their first metric century (and Mega Pretzel is definitely not the place most people want to get their first century in!).
I’ve had the opportunity to watch this person grow and do what they did today over the course of months; myself included when I joined the team only 6? months ago.
end rambling:
Only [non] solution is more of a “chase fence” or “sweep fence”, which forces all riders to be pushed along behind the pacer…
However I still hate that solution, because that means it will be abused by people to rack up XP; at least until ZHQ could also program anyone that’s on this sweeping fence, isn’t getting the XP, nor the distance for the mileage their racking up…
And specifically that last bit about not increasing mileage;as that will really break things like Strava or others that record that data. So again… still a hideous non-solution.
Which is why I don’t believe we will ever see a solution; because again the only thing it’s really cheating is … you; cheating / lying, whichever word you prefer, about doing things you aren’t doing. What’s the point?
Also for what it’s worth, changing your weight is for the most part pretty meaningless in terms of being able to keep up with group dynamics… unless the group rides are purely going up hills.
Zwift’s worlds are on average quite flat, making “weight doping” pretty pointless a mass majority of the time.
If all you want to do is group rides; keep your real weight in Zwift, and focus on staying in the pack’s draft or with the ride leader. If you find yourself falling out of the draft… weight “cheating” isn’t going to magically make you faster, in fact… it’s likely making you much slower in most segments in all honesty.
Acceleration and climbing is one thing; but… wattage and all out speed is something weight cheating doesn’t fix, which is … more than likely where the problem is.
This is longer of an answer than this deserves but one last point to make about people that don’t understand group rides, which comes up more than I’d like to admit, from my experiences I’ve learned over the past several months after joining my team’s group rides and now being a sweeper:
We rate our group rides as Cat C, at a “2.7-2.8w/kg pace,” which should be pretty meaningless, however… that’s just what people expect.
I’m fairly light at 60kg, so my pace ends up closer to 3w/kg if I sit in the group.
But to put into perspective what I mean when I talk about group / blob speed, if I’m fully off the draft of our group ride, say 15 seconds back and alone… I’m in a really really bad spot.
While my group leader may only be hanging around 200ish watts / 2.7w/kg, in a pack of say 50-100+ people…
The bit some people fail to understand about group rides and why this problem exists is falling out of the draft.
And skinny little me outside the draft in clean air means I have to put out 4.5w/kg at bare minimum just to keep up; that’s not catching… that’s just hanging on, if I want to catch I have to be putting down my TTT pace of 5.5+, which I can’t hold for very long, and only 15 seconds back while it may not seem like a lot, when alone… usually means 45 seconds to an entire minute. If I’m 20-25 seconds back? I’m not making it back plain and simple… (which depending on the route DOES happen)… maybe one day…
Which is why there isn’t a solution here other than to focus on staying in the group, because it really does matter.
So to finish up what I have to say; specifically to Birsen: Put your real weight back in. Focus more on keeping in the draft, and see if that’s where the problem is. As again… putting in a lighter weight, genuinely doesn’t make you faster by any reasonable amount unless purely climbing.
And what goes up… must come down.
And I could go on forever, but a quick summary is… even being called a feather at 60kg, means I usually have to put out sprint efforts during events on the downhills to not be dropped…
Weight cheating does more harm than most people might think.
Hopefully this super drawn out response slightly clears that up.
TLDR:
Weight “cheating” or whatever you want to name it, isn’t a solution. There is no greener side on either side of the weight scale you end up on; both have their negatives; they’re just different negatives.
[IMO] All weight cheating does in relation to trying to keep up in group rides is end up confusing you where the problem is, and when you forget that you’ve done it, ruins the purpose of it as a solution in the first place (or worse, might get you DQ’d)
TLDR Group Rides:
Staying in the draft of the group is the most important key, and the only key.
Being lightweight only makes you marginally faster on climbs assuming they’re as steep as say ADZ or more (which I would presume are QUITE RARE on most group rides). All being a lightweight does on descents is means you are likely going to be dropped by… everyone.
It does not make you any faster on the flats; if anyone can prove it does, I’d be willing to bet that the difference is less than that of a more aero bike frame (which is… the point)
… Which is why the rubberbanding feature isn’t supposed to be used in group rides (as opposed to Meetups), because it really doesn’t work properly.
I wonder if what Zwift should do is create an e-bike for folks who need to “keep up” with a group they couldn’t otherwise - rather than feel the need to change weight. Someone suggested it before, but maybe it could work.
Basically it would show up in Strava as a “Virtual e-bike ride”, and would not mess with any of the KOMs, or segment times, or your PR bots, maybe you get less XP while riding it, etc, but you could choose how much of a power bias you need within a certain range. It would show up very clearly as an e-bike in the game as it has a battery pack, and bigger frame etc. The default is they can’t be used in events, but organizers can allow them if they want - Maybe you could have ± bias controls while on the ride to tweak its power over time.
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