I was listed as UPG, although I was 9th. Apparently this is something to do with being in the wrong category but the other people in the race were generating more power than me so were they UPG too? Why can’t they just list me in the results and put ‘out of category’ against my name? Also why don’t they put me in the right category in the first place? I don’t expect to win anything but I don’t want to enter races where I get dropped every time.
Welcome to the deeply flawed w/kg categorisation system for Zwift.
I think they average last 30 days. Witch is not the best way to go about it. A simple clear line is better I think. For example I won my first C cat Yesterday and was 3rd over the finish line. Couple of hours later they put a guy in first place who had 3,47 w/kg over 23 min. Using simple math with 20 min effort = FTP/0,95 (95%) gives a true capacity of 3,47*0,95 = 3,296 w/kg
If you can produce these watts per kilo over 20 min then it shouldnt matter what you did yesterday, last week or even a month ago, right?
Zwiftpower takes your best 3 races in the last 90 (not 30) days, averaging together 95% of your best 20 minute power from each race.
Thanks Steve and that is dumb. I have raised my ftp from 265 to 285 in about 6 weeks. In that time I have probebly lost 3kg weight while Zwifting 1500 hard km.
So from 265/96 = 2,76 to 285/93 = 3,06
Why should I race on 90 days old merits?
We dont calculate ftp on 90 days average do we?
We dont calculate weight on a 90 days average do we?
So why should we all compete on 90 days average?
Thanks again Steve for the information but this dumb.
If you won, how come you were third over the finish line?
No2 guy had no pulse and at first I think they disqualify the no1 guy with 3,5w/kg for 23 min. Sound dessition in my world. But by racing smart you can fly under the cut with these rules.
That’s my point a clear line of one 20 min (the best) effort last month should deside your racing category.
Your 3 best arent a 90 day average - they are the 3 best. For most people who are improving, such as yourself, these 3 results could well be achieved in the past 3 days. If your 3 best were 89 days ago, then in a couple of days ZP would ignore them then and your Cat would be based on the next best 3 - for some this could mean you drop a Cat.
Good example - I mtb in summer (its summer where I am) so my Zwift fitness drops in summer as MTB fitness is quite different to road riding/Zwift fitness. I have moved down from “CAT C Almost B” to “CAT C” - and that reflects the odd performance I am putting in these days when I race.
Here’s the ZP FAQ on Cats - its worth a read as its not as simple as just 3 best w/kg in 90 days.
If I have the right person in ZP, you are Cat B, you entered Cat C and were over the Cat C limits - your avg was 3.4 and the Cat limit is 3.2. You are allowed 0.1 tolerance, so even with that you were too high. But even if you were doing 3.2 in that race, you would then get WKG disqualification for racing down a Cat. If its not you I have no idea
Yes know the feeling i got a DQ for 10m TT where i produced 251 av of Watts, however when i did the short FTP test it showed me 225 av even though the test stopped at 250,
Your FTP estimate is 95% of your average 20 minute power.
Ah did not know thanks,
Thanks will do
That’s all fine and dandy then, Witch cat you supposed to race in is decided on 3 efforts. But if I understand correctly the guy who produces 3,47 w/kg over 23 min and 268 watts in that race cat c should be disqualified in the race but still be able to compete in C if he dont have 2 as high efforts supporting a upgrade to cat B?
You got it, he would get a UPG (above Cat). EDIT2 - James note below refers, 95% of 3.47 is 3.2295 which is under the 0.1 tolerance, so no, no DQ. Apologies. Below comment holds true however.
If he did it 3times, he would get WKG. (EDIT) and then be pushed up a Cat.
It depends how the race is set up. Some race organisers will automatically DQ people who started in the wrong category. If he entered in C as a C he wouldn’t have been disqualified on those numbers as 95% of his wattage is likely to have been under 3.3, which would put him below the threshold. He’ll probably get upgraded either already or in the next race or so.
Some organisers are also scrutinising peoples history, and if they suspect you are sandbagging (or cruising as some label it), ie, gaming the system and purposely keeping your efforts low to build a low 20min avg, they are DQ’ing people.
Does Herd do that James?
You can start seeing why Steve’s original comment up the top of this becomes even more relevant! But it is what we have today.
I run 18 races over the week. Our ITTs are automatically upgraded based on category. For our other events it’s done on entering the right category, otherwise you get a DQ. I don’t go into the level of scrutiny that you’ve mentioned, otherwise I’d never go to bed
Yeah I hit some of your races periodically (normally wrong timezone but enjoy Herd events).
TFC and Sweatfest for example also take a view that regardless of Cat, if you podium a series and are at top of the cta, your are encouraged to cat up (I kind of like that approach).
A european organiser just DQ’s anyone they believe are sandbaggers (good thread elsewhere here on that discussion!).
Kudos to you for organising.