KICKR + CLIMB random tilt spikes

Bugs and Support
1

Hi,

I have recently started encountering very peculiar behaviour of Wahoo KICKR18 with Wahoo CLIMB. Basically on a completely flat route (imagine 0deg on parts of Fuego Flats) the CLIMB moves randomly in recurrent spikes of about +/-1 deg. It doesn’t happen all the time, just on 0deg flats and even there it seems random, but occurs in about half a minute to minute bursts of these up/down changes round about every second each.

I have done some experimenting and here’s the summary of the prerequisites:

  • KICKR+CLIMB connected via ANT+ to MacBook Pro (Late 2013)
  • ANT+ dongle on extension USB cable 1ft from KICKR
  • Bluetooth disabled on Macbook
  • All bluetooth devices in vicinity also disabled.
  • HEADWIND switched OFF
  • WiFi on 5GHz network
  • No other WiFi signals detected, channel 11 clear
  • No other apps and/or computers connected to KICKR+CLIMB apart from the MacBook Pro running Zwift

I think I can say with some certainty that there’s nothing that should be interfering with the correct operation. There’s single computer, single application, connected to KICKR+CLIMB via ANT+, no other ANT+ or Bluetooth devices present, no fans running, no signal interference.

Yet, it’s still there. The random up/down motion, every second or so, in random bursts, on the Zwift route (Fuego Flats) that’s completely flat and showing 0deg gradient.

The only explanation I think I can narrow it down is software. Either Zwift is sending these random tilt commands, or KICKR is misinterpreting what’s being sent via ANT+.

So I have done some digging into Zwift log file and I have found a very peculiar sequence of SIM GRADE commands that are not zero, where they should be:

[20:21:59] FE-C SIM GRADE -0.001
[20:21:59] ANT : FET grade set successfully
[20:22:00] FE-C SIM GRADE -0.001
[20:22:00] ANT : FET grade set successfully
[20:22:01] FE-C SIM GRADE -0.001
[20:22:01] ANT : FET grade set successfully
[20:22:02] FE-C SIM GRADE -0.001
[20:22:02] ANT : FET grade set successfully
[20:22:03] FE-C SIM GRADE -0.000
[20:22:03] ANT : FET grade set successfully
[20:22:04] FE-C SIM GRADE -0.000
[20:22:04] ANT : FET grade set successfully
[20:22:05] FE-C SIM GRADE 0.000
[20:22:05] ANT : FET grade set successfully
[20:22:06] FE-C SIM GRADE 0.001
[20:22:06] ANT : FET grade set successfully
[20:22:07] FE-C SIM GRADE 0.001
[20:22:07] ANT : FET grade set successfully
[20:22:08] FE-C SIM GRADE 0.001
[20:22:08] ANT : FET grade set successfully
[20:22:09] FE-C SIM GRADE 0.001
And so on…

Now I can see two possible scenarios:

  1. Zwift is sending wrong GRADE commands. Where it should be 0.000, it’s only very slightly around this number, or just the +/- fluctuation.

  2. CLIMB (or KICKR) over-interprets the GRADE commands, and for every value that’s just positive above zero, however small, generates +1deg tilt and for every value that’s just negative below zero, generates -1deg tilt.

Either way, the result of these minuscule random undulations (whether sent in error or deliberately) is a constant 1deg up/down oscillation of the CLIMB.

I’m not sure what changed in KICKR firmware or Zwift recently that could be causing this, but it’s becoming quite noticeable and very annoying.

Any ideas or insights anyone? I’ve contacted both Wahoo and Zwift support, but so far no joy.

2

I’m experiencing exactly the same kind of issues since the start of the L’Etape rides, but mine are the inverse - I get nothing for 5 or 10 minutes, and then a HUGE 5%+ or more jump in ascent or decent on the KickR climb.

I created a thread, to which I also got no response from Zwift on, despite them directing me here to request assistance.

/t/wahoo-kickr-climb-lag-or-delays-in-grade-variations/498788/2

1 Like
3

I am getting the same thing and think it started after the France maps came on.

I just rode Ventoux and there were sections when it’s a steady grade but the Kickr Climb just randomly starts going up and down with a very jerky movement. It was so annoying that I turn it off. I’ve experienced this in other parts of Zwift recently.

I have sent a ticket into Wahoo. Will report back.

2 Likes
4

Thanks Ben, it doesn’t seem just as an odd isolated issue anymore.

I’ve also noticed it happening more often and with larger oscillations since the latest update with France/Paris for everyone.

5

Wanted to circle back on this.

After more testing I figured out that my Climb was just broken. Specifically it would not go through zero smoothly and would get erroneous readings that jump around. This was very evident when controlling the Climb using the wired remote. What I think was happening in Zwift was that it was trying to change gradient but couldn’t get there and would then try again, resulting in weird movement that I reported earlier.

Wahoo have been great from a support perspective. They sent me a label to return the Climb and are now shipping me a new one.

It’s disappointing that it broke. I’ve done about 5000 miles on the Climb with lots of climbing. I wonder how long the new one will last.

HoweverX I rode tonight without it and really missed it. As did my bum. It really does make Zwift a more enjoyable (and comfortable) experience.

1 Like
6

I’ve had issues with this recently. I use Apple TV 4K, Assioma pedals as my power source, Kickr18 as my controllable and the Climb linked to my Kickr. I use the Companion App on my iPhone or Ipad.
Lately, my Climb doesn’t always respond to the gradient changes. At times I’ve just quit the ride, other times I’ve unplugged the Climb and/or Kickr and then had success. Yesterday I did a U-turn, then another U-turn in a few seconds, and the Climb started working, but would seem to go through all of the gradient changes that would have occurred, but in a short period of time. Today, I re-paired the Climb (holding the button on the Climb’s control) and it started working, but with frequent, jerky changes that don’t correlate with the gradient. After a few minutes, it settled in and followed the course, but not as smoothly as it did a couple of weeks ago.
FWIW, this does not happen if I use the Kickr as my Power source & controllable, and go through Apple TV without the companion app.

I wonder if this is related to the recent game & app updates.

7

Just wanted to come back to this. Some time after my original posts the KICKR CLIMB failed completely. The belt didn’t snap as in some cases, but it was heavily frayed, elongated and due to that the teeth didn’t engage and it just went full down tilt under load and haven’t returned back.

Wahoo have been great as always and sent me a replacement unit, that arrived a few days later and picked up the old broken unit.

Since then - no issues.

I’d suggest the problems were of a mechanical nature after all, rather than a SW. A sign of impending failure if you will. Be cautious, it’s not a pleasant experience when you suddenly go full negative tilt at full load.

8

My issue is definitely software related, here’s what I’ve figured out.
This is all with Apple TV.
If I use ATV to pair my KIckr as my power source, controllable & cadence, Tickr for HRM, everything works fine, but I can’t use my power meter (Favero Assioma pedals) as my power source.
If I use the Companion App to pair, I have to be careful about the order that I turn on everything. I have to make sure that I spin my pedals to wake them up. Then, turn on ATV & ZCA, then power up the KIckr. I wait a few seconds while on the pairing screen and pay attention to the app. Once I see that the app pairs, ATV usually populates all of the pairing, the Climb adjusts itself, I choose a route & everything works fine. If I don’t power up the pedals first and I have to pick them manually from the pairing screen, the Climb does not respond to gradient changes.

9

I think your issue is slightly different to the random spikes I’ve described in the original post.

It is quite interesting however and I’m struggling to understand how that might happen. The CLIMB itself is a bit specific in a way it connects. It doesn’t “talk” to Zwift directly and as far as I understand it Zwift doesn’t really know if CLIMB is connected or not. When you initially set it up, it pairs directly with KICKR itself, which then commands its incline changes via commands send to KICKR, not the CLIMB. It doesn’t need or use extra communication channel.

Are you 100% sure you’ve paired CLIMB with KICKR? I’d suggest removing it via Wahoo app and then re-pairing it again (make sure the Favero pedals are off, KICKR is ON and then move the CLIMB remote near KICKR until it pairs).

Also, are you sure the CLIMB is in sync mode (right blue LED on remote) rather than manual mode (left LED)?

10

I’ve had the “random spikes” issue as well.
My issues occur only when using my power meter as my power source, and my Kickr as my controllable when using the Zwift Companion App & Apple TV. If I don’t connect in the order that I described, the Climb does not respond to gradient changes. The lights are on, it’s paired as it should be etc. If I use ATV for pairing (Kickr as power source & controllable) I don’t have the issue.
As for the “random spikes” issue, there have been times where after starting a ride when the Climb does not respond, I re-pair, unplug/plug in the Climb/Kickr or I’ve done a U-turn, rode for a short distance the done another U-turn and suddenly the Climb seems to “catch up” with all of the missed gradient changes. Once it goes through them all, it then follows what’s on the course.
This only happens with ATV/ZCA, and only if I use my power meter as my power source (I like to do this because I train outside with that power meter). It seems to have started with the latest game & app updates. It does not happen if I use my iPad or laptop.