Cheating in races

Why do people cheat in races and what if anything zwift is going to do to police it ? I’m talking about racing with power outputs of average 3.9w/kg in a max 2.4 cat every race I have done the top ten to twenty are way over power some don’t even have heart rate it does tend to spoil the enjoyment ! Why can’t zwift disqualify any one massively over the required power

There are already numerous threads on this topic. You should read through some of those and see what people have to say. A lot of it, I think, comes down to the question ‘why do people cheat at anything?’ Personally, I find it hysterical that people cheat (or, really, don’t follow the rules) in a virtual bike race. I mean, is it really that important to win that you can’t do it fairly? A lot of folks say to just look at the results on ZwiftPower.com, where sandbaggers are removed from the results, but that still seems more like a workaround than an actual solution. And as Zwift tries to make e-racing more mainstream I think they will have to come up with a better in-game method for enforcing the rules.

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Ultimately, people cheat because they lack self respect.

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A lot of people that care about results have registered for zwiftpower and treat those results as the official ones (although it doesn’t capture riders that aren’t registered so there are serious flaws in that logic too). It was created because racers where/are getting the feeling zwift doesn’t care about racing integrity.

I like the fence in group rides it stops idiots from being themselves. It would be nice if zwift automatically assigned a racer’s category so people don’t get the choice to enter the wrong category. This is also has some problems, e.g. bike shop accounts where different people want to race, when people get sick or injured and need to come back easy, but for the most part it is what you’d expect zwift to do years ago.

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There is a very interesting comment on this subject on reddit. And it includes a very interesting solution to the problem… )))
Bringing the comment as it is, direct citation:

There is a simple solution to all this. Today in my unranked group ride, first across the line was riding at 4.54W/kg, 300 Watts average, with an average heart rate of 77. That kid needs a pro contract stat!

Here’s what Zwift should do. The first time you win a race in any category except A, you get a medal. Congratulations!

The second time you win a race in that category, your foot turns into a brown lump. This effect lasts two years. As you continue to win races in that category without moving up, your Avatar gradually transforms into a warm, stinking poop. This effect cannot be removed and affects your avatar at all times.

We’d quickly see D & C races getting dominated by large groups of steaming turds. When someone asks you how your race went, you can just tell them, quite honestly, that the front of the pack was a real shitshow but there was good racing in your section.

Simple and effective, vote for my Zwift platform 2020

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yes there was a guy racing last night 12 years old 140cm high yet 3.9w/kg average and no heart beat came 5th i think better than a pro, I was reading about stats and how some people lower their weight for hilly races and make themselves heavier on flat races also apparently if you make your self shorter zwift applies less wind resistance = to the aero helmet in a power up for the entire race. I would make sure everything is correct and so get a true picture of my firness and how im progressing. i just look at my time or the race im in and check it against previous ones.

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Yes, known thing.
I’m also part of some another closed group discussion, and among the participants there are some known pro-riders. Those riders are sometimes participating in races in Zwift, but not in the official advertised pro races etc… So, they constantly telling that sometimes just by riding among people in races could not believe their eyes on what people are able to do in Zwift comparing to the real-pros. This includes comments about women group races also…some of the results vs riders ages vs reality - not always real…

Another thing is a very interesting comment from one of the riders on the subject why exactly he is riding in the groups lower than his own FTP (here: Talk the talk when will you walk the walk)
I`m not here to judge this rider decision, but why not discuss it as a reality? Respect his decision to talk openly about his opinion on this matter. And why not define this behaviour? There is nothing wrong in defining things as they are )))

So, by entering a lower race (very important keyword - RACE, as it makes the whole meaning of it) category any rider with higher specs, even if he/she decides to ride slowly, without winning the race, they still have the influence on that race. As their capacities could influence the whole tempo of the pack even if it for a short time speed and power changes during hills etc…etc… etc… - thus the whole meaning of the race here becomes a total nonsense.

Get a bunch of C, B, A, A+ riders in a D group race, and with a reality of 20 real D group riders and 20-30 C, B, A, A+ riders (that just riding at lower power, they do not have any intention to win…they are all good guys, they are not riding above the limits of D, thus they are not doing something bad or wrong , all good guys etc…etc…etc…) and the so-called race becomes just an illusional masquerade, charade, circus (or just put in the empty space any similar word from a dictionary) - anything but a real race.

Same goes for any so-called Category where there are riders with higher FTP capacities even if they do not have the intention to win…
This is not a race, but illusional charade .

Once again, no judging here or whats so ever, just defining the facts by the symptoms of the phenomena. ))

Amen.

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You got the point, Adam. I’m coming out for my behaviour and i’m not ashamed. Why should i?

Hi, Svenne! ))
hmm…ehh…hmm… where and when did I told that you should be ashamed?
I appreciate your honesty on this point, really!

What I did is just stated the facts based on the symptoms of the existing phenomena (you are not alone in this existing racing parade of charade - sorry for the french - so not all the kudos should go for you and you only ))) and the whole sense of race etc…etc…will not repeat myself again.

This is simple as it is. No shame, judgement or whats so ever, just a definition of the situation.

And those facts are bothering a lot of riders that think differently than you (and/or others with similar opinion) and prefer to have in place another type of system that will allow them enjoy racing in the manner that they think is more honest.

Simple as it is )).

p.s… forgot the - Amen!

Hi Adam, thanks for your reply.

Yes indeed. It’s a big problem in Zwift and i know, ppl don’t help if they continue entering in lower categories of races while they van race at higher levels but i also believe that many have different reasons to do that and not only to influence results. Just because it’s possible. There’re no rules, there’re no restrictions, there’s no manual. I’m not stupid neither and do know the meaning of “racing” as i do in summertime IRL. But i’m one of the first that admits and gives my opinion why someone would enter a “lower” cat racing. I hope i can contribute to a solution for this already huge problem!

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I think this could be easiely solved:

A solution for Racing could be: when Exeeding the Category with 0.3-0.4 watts over an average of 20 minutes will individually ban you from the race… „Race Hard and Fair“ - or get kicked… - just like the Red Grind / Banner for GroupRides
It‘s soo annoying with Sandbaggers…

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absolutely right on.

Why don’t Zwift just introduce a points system for races AKA British cycling categories, you get placed you get points and move up and down the categories.

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Many believe that the future of Zwift racing will need to have a results based points system. I am one if them.

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Me too Vincent.

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I don’t understand why you enter a “Race” if the point is to ride slowly and not try to win the race. Why don’t you just do a regular ride then?

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Does anyone at Zwift scrutinise race results? Just completed Stage 5 of the Tour and I can’t get my head around the results. Cat D position 1- Ave watts 135W @ 1.7w/kg, position 2 - Ave watts 455W @ 5.8 w/kg. It’s not until position 60 onwards that the results are believable for a true Cat D rider. Would adding a data field to show average speed help to explain results? I’m never going to threaten the top 100 but I’d like to understand the results to help me push on. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

ZwiftPower.com solves much of the problem

No, it really doesn’t. ZwiftPower just filters the results AFTER the sandbaggers have already destroyed the race.

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