Bluetooth dropping during ride, won't reconnect without quitting

Just bought the saris h3 and Apple TV (4K)…had drop-outs like everybody here. I have installed/upgraded the latest versions on all software and hardware. I have seen a couple of things:

  1. Saris H3 bluetooth seems to be very weak. I did a test with the homescan app. From 2 feet away - the signal is weak.
  2. Moved the ATV box right next to the H3 bluetooth - a foot away - did not register on the ZWIFT app on the ATV.
  3. Started up the ZWIFT companion app - bingo - immediately the H3 appeared on the ATV. Seems I need the ZWIFT companion app on to get an initial connection.
  4. The H3 bluetooth seems to have a timer on it when it starts up - after 5/10 minutes it appears not to be active (assuming the flashing light means it is actively searching).
  5. Q: is it normal to have the H3 reboot to start a ride…my local bike shop is using the same setup no issues. Anytime of day their setup seems active and works.

    Please help or I just might have to check out other virtual ride packages.

FYI - I verified the bike shop H3 and my H3 behave the same in bluetooth and signal strength. Point 3 - zwift companion for connectivity seems to be good. I believe the issues lies in the latest release of Apple TV and/or Saris H3 not being compatible with eachother. Zwift companion on the iphone is one work-around. I have also used casting and my iPad as another workaround. Both seem not to cause the dropping behaviour.

Hello,
Same story here…the issue is very frustrating…
Before I’ve checked the forum…I’ve tried with battery replacement in Trainer, Apple TV reset to factory settings, moving trainer closer to Apple TV but without success…this issue is random…and usually happen during each ride with different sequence.
In my case , Bluetooth connection return to normal without additional restart …but still I make me crazy.
In a while I’ll open another ticket to Zwift ;/
Cheers Adam

Hello Legion of Frustrated Zwift/Saris H3 riders:

Like you, I have experienced the same annoying BT drops to the H3 trainer on Apple devices since my iPad and iPhone installed iOS14.2. Since neither Zwift nor Saris have yet been responsive to trouble tickets, I decided to design some controlled experiments to diagnose the problem. This is the report of my first experiment…there will be four more reports over the next several days, so stay tuned.

Looking deeply into my Zwift ride files and other electronic data that I was able to capture using independent test equipment, the BT drop appears to be related to use of the Zwift Companion app (hereafter “ZC”) with the Device Connection bridge switched ON while the Zwift game app (hereafter “ZG”) is running on an iOS14.2 device.

Hypothesis: After iOS14.2 installation, something broke with the ZC Device Connection bridge, thus causing interference with the BT connection between the H3 and ZG.

Experiment #0: Can a stable and responsive BT connection to the H3 be established and maintained outside of ZC or ZG? Method: Directly connect the H3 to the Saris app or Rouvy app (on iPad Gen2 running iOS14.2). Success! BT connection maintained and both apps able to communicate reliably with the H3. In addition, I was able to ride in Rouvy without any BT drops.

Experiment #1: Can a stable BT connection be directly established and maintained between the H3 and ZG with ZC not running on any iOS14.2 device? Yes! I was able to directly connect the H3 to ZG running on my iPad (Gen 2 with iOS14.2) via direct BT link. Thereafter, I was able to enjoy a one hour group ride on ZG without a BT drop to the H3 for the first time since my Apple devices installed iOS14.2. Full disclosure: I usually run ZC on my iPhone and ZG on my iPad (larger screen) with both devices active on the same WiFi network. For this experiment, I switched OFF the iPhone BT and did not activate the ZC app in order to create the cleanest possible experiment free of any competing BT traffic.

OK - So it’s unpleasant to not be able to message anyone using ZC during a ride or to not be able to switch to Map or Dashboard mode in ZC, BUT…not as unpleasant as having your avatar stop moving because the BT connection to your H3 was randomly dropped in the middle of a ride.

NOTE - If you are up for it, please try Experiment #1 above with your Apple device/Saris H3 setup and report your results back to this thread. The wisdom of the crowd may help solve this issue long before Saris or Zwift offer a response.

Subsequent planned experiments over the next few days:

Experiment #2: Establish direct BT connection between H3 and iPad (running iOS14.2). Turn on iPhone BT switch, BUT do NOT start ZC app on iPhone. Join a group ride of at least an hour. Design: Attempt to determine if BT interference is coming from another radiating device, or from the BT bridge in ZC.

Experiment #3: Establish direct BT connection between H3 and iPad (running iOS14.2). Turn on iPhone BT switch, AND start ZC app on iPhone but without having BT bridge active. Join a group ride of at least an hour. Design: Attempt to determine if BT interference is coming from the BT bridge in ZC.

Experiment #4: Establish direct BT connection between H3 and iPad (running iOS14.2). Turn on iPhone BT switch, AND start ZC app on iPhone with BT bridge ON. Join a group ride of at least an hour. Design: Attempt to determine if BT interference is coming from the BT bridge in ZC.

The above experiments are designed to use a step-by-step approach to re-introduce sources of BT interference between the H3 and ZG and ZC running on an Apple iOS14.2 device UNTIL I am able to replicate the BT drops that everyone has observed. This approach should isolate the source of the problem, and reveal a workaround until such time as Zwift or Saris fix the bug.

3 Likes

Similar issue here. Have had 6 months of faultless performance running zwift on ipad, connected to stages power meter and garmin HRM - both via bluetooth. In last 2 weeks, i’ve failed to complete more rides than not, with power data initially dropping, then losing the power meter entirely. Each case requires restart of Zwift, which means race over, and then everything is back fine. Battery has been changed to rule that out, but the fact that everything is fine after a re-start, does point to software. Tried zwifting without companion app (on android phone) today, but with same effect. Failed after about 25 mins. Its currently unusable, so i’ll have to go back to PC (which doesn’t have most reliable BT) until this is fixed.

1 Like

Hi all

Agree brand new Saris H3 and connection dropouts with Zwift on IOS 14 IPAD. Tried a Rouvy trial and the connection is rock solid. Shame as I was looking forwards to getting into Zwift but I wont be paying for an unusable service.

David

1 Like

Loving the logic Scott R, I will certainly try Experiment 1. But I have to say I’m pretty sure I’ve had drop-outs when the ZC app isn’t running on my iPhone (I’ve been closing all apps incase one of them was doing something on BT in the background). I might try removing the phone from the entire equation first (put in airplane mode) and then build on that.
I’ll report back tomorrow.
Note, I only been able to complete 1 workout out of the last 10 attempts now, including a failed race - bloody annoying. At what point will Zwift realise this will be revenue impacting for them as people move to other platforms - if it wasn’t for the Racing I would have packed it in last week and gone to Trainer Road.

I’ve now managed 3 rides in a row without a dropout.

Could be random (I had three drop-outs in one ride once), or maybe connected to disabling Mail and Messages on the iPad. Haven’t tested whether switching one or other back on leads to a return to dropouts, and my ride tomorrow will probably drop out now I’ve typed this, but just putting it here as a suggestion if others want to try.

The ‘hack’ of flicking to ‘run’ and back on the pairing screen has saved workouts for me when dropouts happen (better than force-quitting the app, anyway), but no use for group rides or races.

Dale: Do you have the BT Device Connection bridge running in your ZC app? Check the status of the toggle switch found in ZC>>Settings>>Device Connections. My data and test measurements imply that the ZC BT Device Connection bridge may be the culprit since iOS14.2 was installed.

More experimental reports to come from me over the next couple of days.

Ive done some digging and it looks like iOS update 14.2 was cause of all this Bluetooth crap people having issues with Bluetooth speakers dropping as well. There is a 14.3 in beta currently that cross your fingers fixed this annoying issue. Let’s all get on Apple to fix this. Last winter it was the super small screen in the upper corner for people that had 720 p TVs after a certain update. Nothing good ever seems to come of these updates. Peace :v:

1 Like

Need to disable automatic updates on my ATV so when we finally get a working OS it will stay working! Unfortunately we are unable to back rev the iOS on a ATV 4k :joy:

iOS 14.3 is set to be released on Monday, December 14, fingers crossed :crossed_fingers:t2:

RESULTS OF EXPERIMENTS #2 AND #3 – Refer to my lengthy 10-Dec post in this thread to understand the experimental design and logic, and see results for Experiments #0 and #1.

GLOSSARY OF TERMS & ABBREVIATIONS:

iPad = Gen2 iPad Air running iOS14.2

iPhone = iPhone 8 running iOS14.2

H3 = Saris H3 smart trainer (Hammer 42600; firmware v31.063; software v37.013|009b|0001)

BT = Bluetooth

ZG = Zwift Game app (version 1.0.59353) running on iPad

ZC = Zwift Companion app [version 3.20.0 (1078)] running on iPhone

ZC-DC-BT Bridge = Zwift Companion Device Connection bluetooth bridge (accessed in ZC at ZC>>More>>Device Connection>>Toggle Switch

HYPOTHESIS: Beginning with the iOS14.2 release, H3 users began widely reporting dropped BT connections to their H3 trainers while running ZG on multiple Apple devices. The data collected so far (both Zwift experience and independent electronic monitoring data) points to a problem created in the iOS14.2 release that causes the BT link employed by Zwift to connect to the H3 to become unstable or interrupted during ZG rides. So, let’s see if can isolate the source of the BT problems with ZG and iOS14.2, and then propose a workaround.

WHAT WE KNOW SO FAR: With reference to Experiments #0 and #1 in my 10-Dec post on this thread, we can successfully…

Establish and maintain a direct and stable BT link between iPad and H3 using either the Saris app or Rouvy. In addition, we can ride in Rouvy without experiencing the annoying BT drops that we have all routinely experienced in ZG.

Ride successfully in ZG running on iPad using a direct BT connection from iPad to H3 WITHOUT having the ZC-DC-BT-Bridge active or any other source of BT radio traffic from any device other than the H3 and iPad (e.g. no BT speakers, earbuds, sensors running through an iOS14.2 device).

SO NOW, LET’S START ADDING BT RADIO TRAFFIC STEPWISE ON iOS14.2 DEVICES UNTIL THE BT CONNECTION TO THE H3 CRASHES DURING A ZG SESSION.

EXPERIMENT #2 – The parameters for Expt #2 were:

ZG running on iPad with direct BT link to H3

ZC not running on any device, and thus, no ZC-DC-BT-Bridge is active

iPhone BT radio in ON

No BT speakers, earbuds, or non-ZG/H3 sensors running through an iOS14.2 device

Ride for 60 mins in a group ride

RESULT: Success! No BT drops to the H3 during the ride. Every ZG function and data feed performed nominally.

EXPERIMENT #3 - The parameters for Expt #3 were:

ZG running on iPad with direct BT link to H3

ZC running on iPhone, but ZC-DC-BT-Bridge was toggled OFF

iPhone BT radio in ON

No BT speakers, earbuds, or non-ZG/H3 sensors running through an iOS14.2 device

Ride for 60 mins in a group ride

RESULT: Success! No BT drops to the H3 during the ride. Every ZG function and data feed performed nominally. In addition, I was heavily using the ZC Map, Dashboard, Zwifters Nearby, and Messaging functions on ZC without any issues. First time that I have had this level of success with ZC since iOS14.2 was installed.

Temporary and Perhaps Premature Celebration I have now completed three consecutive rides using ZG on iPad with a direct BT link to the H3. Previously, every ZG ride was interrupted at some point by a BT signal drop to the H3 after iOS14.2 was installed.

WHAT IS NEXT? The Big Litmus Test is scheduled for tomorrow with Experiment #4. The parameters for Expt #4 will be:

ZG running on iPad with direct BT link to H3

ZC running on iPhone, with ZC-DC-BT-Bridge toggled ON

iPhone BT radio in ON

No BT speakers, earbuds, or non-ZG/H3 sensors running through an iOS14.2 device

Ride for 60 mins in a group ride

Experiment #4 is designed to test whether the ZC-DC-BT-Bridge is “fighting” with the direct BT connection between the H3 and ZG running on an iOS14.2 device, and therefore, may be responsible for causing the BT signal drops to the H3. The data so far points in this direction, but the experiment needs to be rigorously conducted under controlled conditions. I will file a report on Experiment #4 tomorrow on this thread.

3 Likes

And Yes Brian and K_Leite: We all hope iOS14.3 (or 14.x) fixes this annoying problem. But hope is rarely a successful strategy, and certainly not one that may be implemented quickly when one is dealing with a complex dance between software developed by three independent organizations (Apple, Zwift, Saris).

Sadly, neither Saris nor Zwift is to date offering any reply to the numerous bug report tickets filed by its customers on this issue.

2 Likes

And as predicted, 4th ride of the week had a drop.

So my hope that switching off Mail and/or Messages might have solved the problem was dashed. Also ZC not running on my phone (and ‘Device Connections’ was toggled off before quitting the app in case it wanted to sneakily run in the background.)

I’m getting fewer drops that I did - not every single ride any more - but still not solved.

Nick: Thanks for the update. Just to confirm, does the following accurately capture the parameters of your dropped ride today?

ZG running on iPad with iOS14.2
ZC not running on iPhone or any other iOS device (iOS14.2)
BT radio on iPhone toggled ON

Were you using any BT devices other than the H3 on either your iPad or iPhone during the dropped ride (eg speakers, earbuds, HRM or other cycling sensor, etc)?

Scott: Yes.

Phone - running Spotify, BT connection to AirPods, and AppleWatch (running as a HRM but not connected to Zwift)

Also Wahoo speed/cadence sensor connected to Zwift (for cadence). Have previously removed this from the bike to check whether this was the problem, but still had BT dropout so stuck it back on.

All the above are the same as the three rides this week that didn’t drop (and many perviously that did!)

I’ve been experiencing similar issues lately. I have the following setup:

  • ZG running on AppleTV with TVOS 14.3Beta (I’ve upgraded to 14.3RC2 two days ago)
  • ZC running on Oneplus 5T with Android 10
  • Wahoo Kickr 2014

The problems started at the end of October.

I’ve basically tried everything suggested in the forums (wifi network, airplane mode, etc.) but nothing worked.

Here is my workaround to be trouble free (YMMV):

  • Pair everything with the AppleTV (except for the cadence sensor due to lack of connections)
  • Disable BT on the phone before starting ZC

Since then, I didn’t have any BT drops but I’ve had two ZG crashes which are probably not related. I’m waiting for support to get back to me on this after submitting the crash logs.

I really hope they get this fixed as it’s always been trouble free for the last few years I’ve been running this setup.

Thanks Nick. Since you appear to also have a fair amount of BT traffic apart from the ZG and H3 channels happening during your rides (eg music, AirPods, etc), it might be difficult to interpret the potential cause of your BT drops while riding.

As you probably concluded from my structured experiment reports, I’m trying to minimize BT traffic apart from the ZG/H3 direct connection in order to isolate the connection instabilities. Yes, it sucks to ride without music, but turning on BT earbuds or speakers causes BT noise to show up in the data being recorded by BT sniffer test equipment that I’m using.

Martin: Thanks for your detailed and helpful report. Based on the workaround that you have designed and tested with your ATV setup, I believe that you and I have formulated similar hypotheses regarding the BT connection instability being linked to BT signal channeling through ZC following the iOS14.2 release.

So far my controlled and instrumented testing has demonstrated that I can establish and maintain a stable, direct BT connection to the H3 under numerous setups as long as there is no BT traffic running through ZC.

To conclusively prove our hypothesis, I need to cause a BT drop to recur on a ride in which BT signal is being pass through ZC. That is the objective of my Experiment #4 design, which I will test tomorrow morning and post a report.

It’s very clear now that the iOS14.2 release caused BT connection instability with respect to the Zwift family of apps and the H3. It’s possible that a new iOS14.3 (or higher) release may fix the issue, but…

Ride On!

4 Likes

RESULTS OF EXPERIMENTS #4a, b and c – Refer to my lengthy 10-Dec post in this thread to understand the experimental design and logic.

GLOSSARY OF TERMS & ABBREVIATIONS:

iPad = Gen2 iPad Air running iOS14.2
iPhone = iPhone 8 running iOS14.2
H3 = Saris H3 smart trainer (Hammer 42600; firmware v31.063; software v37.013|009b|0001)
BT = Bluetooth
ZG = Zwift Game app (version 1.0.59353) running on iPad
ZC = Zwift Companion app [version 3.20.0 (1078)] running on iPhone
ZC-DC-BT Bridge = Zwift Companion Device Connection bluetooth bridge (accessed in ZC at ZC>>More>>Device Connection>>Toggle Switch

HYPOTHESIS: Beginning with the iOS14.2 release, H3 users began widely reporting dropped BT connections to their H3 trainers while running ZG on multiple Apple devices. The data collected so far (both Zwift experience and independent electronic monitoring data) points to a problem created in the iOS14.2 release that causes the BT link employed by Zwift to connect to the H3 to become unstable or interrupted during ZG rides. So, let’s see if can isolate the source of the BT problems with ZG and iOS14.2, and then propose a workaround.

WHAT WE KNOW SO FAR (Updated to include data from Experiment 4): With reference to Experiments #0, #1, #2 and #3 in my posts from 10-Dec and 11-Dec on this thread, we can successfully…

  1. Establish and maintain a direct and stable BT link between iPad and H3 using either the Saris app or Rouvy. In addition, we can ride in Rouvy without experiencing the annoying BT drops that we have all routinely experienced in ZG. This strongly supports the notion that the BT drops are associated with the ZG/iOS14.2 interaction with the H3, as opposed a fundamental BT flaw in the H3. After all, most of us successfully rode the H3 in ZG for a long time with BT drops until iOS14.2 came along.

  2. Ride successfully in ZG running on iPad using a direct BT connection from iPad to H3 WITHOUT having the ZC-DC-BT-Bridge active or any other source of BT radio traffic from any device other than the H3 and iPad (e.g. no BT speakers, earbuds, sensors running through an iOS14.2 device).

  3. UPDATED: Use the ZC app on an iOS or Android device apart from the device that we are using to run ZG as long as BT traffic is not channeling through ZC.

EXPERIMENT 4 - LET’S START ADDING BT RADIO TRAFFIC STEPWISE ON iOS14.2 DEVICES UNTIL THE BT CONNECTION TO THE H3 CRASHES DURING A ZG SESSION.

EXPERIMENT #4a – The parameters for Expt #4a were:

ZG running on iPad with direct BT link to H3
ZC running on iPhone with ZC-DC-BT-Bridge active
iPhone BT radio is OFF
No BT speakers, earbuds, or non-ZG/H3 sensors running through an iOS14.2 device
Ride for 60 mins in a group ride

RESULT: Success! No BT drops to the H3 during the ride. Every ZG function and data feed performed nominally. In addition, I was heavily using the ZC Map, Dashboard, Zwifters Nearby, and Messaging functions on ZC without any issues.

EXPERIMENT #4b - The parameters for Expt #4b were:

ZG running on iPad with direct BT link to H3
ZC running on iPhone with ZC-DC-BT-Bridge active
iPhone BT radio is ON (turned ON while still riding after 60 mins of trouble-free Zwifting)
No BT speakers, earbuds, or non-ZG/H3 sensors running through an iOS14.2 device
Ride for 60 mins in a group ride

RESULT: Success! No BT drops to the H3 during the ride. Every ZG function and data feed performed nominally. In addition, I was heavily using the ZC Map, Dashboard, Zwifters Nearby, and Messaging functions on ZC without any issues.

EXPERIMENT #4C (aka “The Big Litmus Test”) - The parameters for Expt #4c were:

ZG running on iPad with direct BT link to H3
ZC running on iPhone with ZC-DC-BT-Bridge active
iPhone BT radio is ON (turned ON before establishing a new ZG session and activating ZC)
No BT speakers, earbuds, or non-ZG/H3 sensors running through an iOS14.2 device
Initiate a new group ride for 60 mins

RESULT: Just over 5 mins into the ride…Down Goes Frazier!…in other words, the dreaded BT drop to the H3 occurred for the first time in my last 7 consecutive test rides. Wow! I think we may have just proven our Hypothesis by forcing a BT drop to occur under controlled and instrumented circumstances. Even more interesting is that after I exited the ZG ride; initiated an upload of the ride to Zwift and Strava; and force closed the ZG app, the ZC app on my iPhone continued to report that I was “Zwifting Now” for another 30mins.

WHAT IS NEXT? Based on almost a dozen structured, controlled, and instrumented experiments (using a radio frequency analyzer and a BT packet sniffer), I strongly believe that the cause(s) of the BT drop issue have been isolated.

It is certainly related to a problem caused in the way that the various Zwift apps pair over BT with the H3 following the iOS14.2 release. I’m not privy to the code for the iOS14.2, ZG, or ZC apps, so it is difficult for me to reasonably speculate about the root cause at a deeper level. This issue may be eventually resolved by software updates from Apple (iOS14.3 anyone?) and/or Zwift, but Saris is also going to need to be involved in the conversation. However, we do not know when (or if) the necessary software updates will occur, or if the software updates will repair the current BT drop issue without doing further harm. In the meantime, we just want to ride trouble-free in ZG. This means that we need a workaround. In the following post, I will outline my workaround recommendations. Please test them with your setup, and let us know what you find.

NOTE - For those interested, the Down Goes Frazier phrase above refers to a famous call by Howard Cosell regarding George Foreman’s knockout of Joe Frazier in the first two minutes of heavyweight boxing match in 1973. You can find it on YouTube.

1 Like