Anti sandbagging and other areas that need development and communication

It’s funny really.

There’s a lot of strange middle age men cheating some random fitness game in their garages…

Obviously, I 100% support everyone here attempting to get Zwift to do something… anything to further protect the lower category racers from wimpy cheaters.

However, I was pondering a radical view. We’re getting very frustrated with a platform. The platform isn’t cheating. Cheaters are cheating.

We collectively should be doing everything possible to call out these cheaters, both during the races and post event.

If we just say nothing to these cheaters they genuinely feel like they’ve won something. If you call them out, there’s a possibility (a small one) that they may feel less amazing with their fake victory.

These aren’t robots cheating, they’re people, normally male, normally angry when you call them out. More often they just stay silent.

I usually start by asking them what category they are. That gets the ball rolling. You’ll quickly ascertain what kind of cheater you’ve got from there.

There’s usually a type.

  1. It’s my first race. Normally a lie. Sometimes true. 1 in 1000.
  2. I’m coming back from injury. BS. They still win the race.
  3. I haven’t been riding. BS. They still win the race.
  4. Instant anger. Will argue continually. Rampant cheat. They still win the race.
  5. Silent. The serial cheater.
  6. Actual noob. On noob trainer that reads wrong. No idea at all. Win by lightyears.
  7. Zwift Power. The devil.

If you think you’ve got a cheater in your race, call them out by name. Ask them questions. It often works.

For the time being, it’s all we’ve got.

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That’s my previous view.

I no longer think enabling these folk silently is the solution.

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There’s an Italian fella who routinely put in 4.2-4.6 w/kg efforts in hour-long races, and his justification for racing in ‘B’ is that he is 52 years old! Of course, he’s not on ZwiftPower,
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But what really grinds my gears is that people post congratulatory messages on his Companion App activities, encouraging this kind of cheating rather than calling it out.
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This comment was from an A-rider whom he beat at the end of a race where he’d averaged 4.4w/kg and finished nearly 2mins clear of the second B-rider!

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Un-related and in other ways related, are you part of the Grit team?

No need to argue with cheats, it won’t change their minds anyway.

Simply disable all results from Zwift, as I do with ZHR, and thus remove any incentive to cheat. Everything through Zwiftpower, where any cheats can be identified, removed, and even auto-DQd.

Sadly, we can’t stop them from entering and ruining a race but we can remove their “glory”

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I was cooked at the end. All I could think of was “See y’all on ZwiftPower”.

I disable the results and have found we get less out of Cat riders, it’s not perfect but it does have an effect.

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To be fair its only a 16 minute race, 2.5-3.1wkg is based theoretically on an hour. You need to discount about 10% off these numbers. Admittedly that leaves a couple still too high, but not by much and they may have just had a breakthrough with the competition.

This is all very well known stuff, isn’t it? Heck, I was writing “club” (clan) management stuff more than 20 years ago. Roster management, social features and all.

Not to mention code to manage and run leagues and cups. Scheduling, promotions/relegations, result managements etc. Q2CTF and other Quake series game types in my case, but a lot of it applies.

It’s not difficult, and doesn’t really require a specialist IMO.

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Sounds like a prime opportunity for you @Daren ! Post up your CV…

Best thing is now we’ll know someone in ZHQ is reading the forum on a regular basis besides Shooj…

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:rofl: While there are definitely reasons I’d like to work at Zwift, I think I’d find it too frustrating judging by what we see on the outside, even if I met the criteria.

Aside from anything else, I’m nowhere near Long Beach. =)

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This stuff is all a long way off then isn’t it.

Wider deployment of clubs Q3/2022, amirite?

Zoon. Real Zoon.

Like to consider this as a positive however such a person was recruited in February (we were told) so it doesnt neccesarily equate to delivery . Perhaps that person has been fired for not delivering but equally could have moved on because it was not possible to deliver due to zings.

Lets see , If he meets the stated candidate requirements would expect pretty rapid and radical changes to approach and engagement . If that doesnt happen we will know that zings are not going to let him use his experience to get this done .

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Not only do you have 1000 posts on here saying the same thing, you now have a carbon copy of this thread on Facebook…

I’m sure, if you really really look, you might find a similar pattern in all those comments.

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@Charlie_Issendorf have you had a look at this thread, following on from your Facebook post in Zwift Racers? Zwift Racers | Facebook
It would be interesting to hear your views.

@Mark_Cote @shooj @xflintx can anyone tell us what’s going on? It’s getting beyond a joke now - we’re now well into the new Zwift season and what has improved fundamentally since March 2021?

As has been stated many many times, racing on Zwift and the communities that power it are one of its biggest assets in terms of PR and marketing. It might be a minority that race, but I really think that the drive and passion that come from the racing community are worth so much more than that. Just look at what has been created / evolved by them, in spite of the sh1tty tools that the long established racing organisers* have been hamstrung with. How much could they do with a bit more help from you guys?

X rider passes Y banner first and gets Z points, on screen leader board updated in close to real time - all configurable - imagine the scope for Fast is Fun there!

*Not WTRL

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Latest Zwiftcast has come out with some cracking understatements and insights pertinent to this thread , go listen if you have an hour;

“I would like to see more people innovating within our platform. And I think part of that is just…we’re not making that particularly easy for people to do that.”

How out of touch is that . Just a quick scan of this ( and similar threads ) would quickly make anyone realise the truth is more . Not making it particularly easy ? Try not making it possible at all. At least I guess they recognise failure , question is will that result in more than words and will we see anything done about it .

It also covers the whoas and problems with creating there fabled hardware folly project ., IMO the reason why nothing (literally) is being done to really innovate in the software espace . Why its not delivered and given the state of the worlds supply chain probably wont for some time . But the most eye dropping insight appears to be a driver for dropping the ball for this project is this idea that existing hardware suppliers are not innovating and zwift wants to push the boundary on that . Really ! Do we have to list the number of hardware innovations that zwift failed misreable to support , or stuck in the manyana world of futureworks to bobble about in the bottom of the barrel until everyone got bored waiting.

Spoiler alert - publically anway , not going to drop this lost cause but suck it up and keep trying… Lets hope that common sense and the urgent need to address core business means privately that will loosen up at least.

Obviously we are not party to the commercial and other relationships between zwift and the existing hardware suppliers but I suspect they need to (should be) working closely with them. The above probably is a risky strategy to be putting out there IMO.

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Which Zwiftcast is that? Sounds like that was the Eric Min interview in episode 90 from 6th October last year. Episode 100 is the latest from Sep 29 2021.

Just goes to show that a year has passed and nothing has happened.

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