Anti sandbagging and other areas that need development and communication

Certainly seems familiar!

Unfortunately this just highlights that the opportunity to develop all of this functionality in Zwift itself has been there for 4 years. Even then it was clear that Zwift racing was going to grow legs and needed significant development support. Frustrating for us, but as the horse isn’t at risk of bolting I guess Zwift can take their time shutting the stable door.

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Great C group tonight 2.5-3.1wkg :see_no_evil:

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almost every race under 20minutes looks this way. so i would say just the normale zwift-way

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But do remember the cat limit is actually 3.4 for 20 min power and people are allowed to improve. Tho I know mostly it’s sandbagging :frowning:

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It’s funny really.

There’s a lot of strange middle age men cheating some random fitness game in their garages…

Obviously, I 100% support everyone here attempting to get Zwift to do something… anything to further protect the lower category racers from wimpy cheaters.

However, I was pondering a radical view. We’re getting very frustrated with a platform. The platform isn’t cheating. Cheaters are cheating.

We collectively should be doing everything possible to call out these cheaters, both during the races and post event.

If we just say nothing to these cheaters they genuinely feel like they’ve won something. If you call them out, there’s a possibility (a small one) that they may feel less amazing with their fake victory.

These aren’t robots cheating, they’re people, normally male, normally angry when you call them out. More often they just stay silent.

I usually start by asking them what category they are. That gets the ball rolling. You’ll quickly ascertain what kind of cheater you’ve got from there.

There’s usually a type.

  1. It’s my first race. Normally a lie. Sometimes true. 1 in 1000.
  2. I’m coming back from injury. BS. They still win the race.
  3. I haven’t been riding. BS. They still win the race.
  4. Instant anger. Will argue continually. Rampant cheat. They still win the race.
  5. Silent. The serial cheater.
  6. Actual noob. On noob trainer that reads wrong. No idea at all. Win by lightyears.
  7. Zwift Power. The devil.

If you think you’ve got a cheater in your race, call them out by name. Ask them questions. It often works.

For the time being, it’s all we’ve got.

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I don’t agree - one of the reasons we want racing to be fair is to make it fun even for new riders. It’s not really a good experience for the new rider riding their first race if the chat is one long heated argument about who is cheating.

Shaming and arguing in the chat would scare even more people away from racing on Zwift!

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That’s my previous view.

I no longer think enabling these folk silently is the solution.

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There’s an Italian fella who routinely put in 4.2-4.6 w/kg efforts in hour-long races, and his justification for racing in ‘B’ is that he is 52 years old! Of course, he’s not on ZwiftPower,
image

But what really grinds my gears is that people post congratulatory messages on his Companion App activities, encouraging this kind of cheating rather than calling it out.
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This comment was from an A-rider whom he beat at the end of a race where he’d averaged 4.4w/kg and finished nearly 2mins clear of the second B-rider!

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Un-related and in other ways related, are you part of the Grit team?

No need to argue with cheats, it won’t change their minds anyway.

Simply disable all results from Zwift, as I do with ZHR, and thus remove any incentive to cheat. Everything through Zwiftpower, where any cheats can be identified, removed, and even auto-DQd.

Sadly, we can’t stop them from entering and ruining a race but we can remove their “glory”

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I was cooked at the end. All I could think of was “See y’all on ZwiftPower”.

I disable the results and have found we get less out of Cat riders, it’s not perfect but it does have an effect.

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image

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To be fair its only a 16 minute race, 2.5-3.1wkg is based theoretically on an hour. You need to discount about 10% off these numbers. Admittedly that leaves a couple still too high, but not by much and they may have just had a breakthrough with the competition.

This is all very well known stuff, isn’t it? Heck, I was writing “club” (clan) management stuff more than 20 years ago. Roster management, social features and all.

Not to mention code to manage and run leagues and cups. Scheduling, promotions/relegations, result managements etc. Q2CTF and other Quake series game types in my case, but a lot of it applies.

It’s not difficult, and doesn’t really require a specialist IMO.

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Sounds like a prime opportunity for you @Daren ! Post up your CV…

Best thing is now we’ll know someone in ZHQ is reading the forum on a regular basis besides Shooj…

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:rofl: While there are definitely reasons I’d like to work at Zwift, I think I’d find it too frustrating judging by what we see on the outside, even if I met the criteria.

Aside from anything else, I’m nowhere near Long Beach. =)

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This stuff is all a long way off then isn’t it.

Wider deployment of clubs Q3/2022, amirite?

Zoon. Real Zoon.