So today I raced in Stage 1 Fresh Outta 25 Propsect Park at 12.10 GMT. If I remember correctly I was racing in group C, which for this event was for riders with a racing score of 270 - 389. My racing score is currently 295, so category D. This means that for this event I am potentially riding against Cat C riders with racing scores of 350 - 390.
Now, I am hellbent on achieving Cat C ASAP but does the category splits for this event not mitigate against that i.e. racing against much stronger riders? And does it not also undermine the point of the racing scores categories? Or maybe it’s as simple as whoever organised the race decided these splits were appropriate and would make for good racing?
Any insight into this would be useful. As I write I am wondering whether this means I should be more strategic about the races I enter i.e. only aim for those where they align with the standard racing score categories?
If you like the ZRacing you might wish to try the Range 2 races which are just half a step up from where you were rather than the Range 1 full step up races.
I don’t follow you here… racing score ranges prohibit people from entering pens if their score is higher, so you are racing against anyone with a score in the range. Don’t confuse racing score with the old Cat A, B, C, D limits, they aren’t the same thing.
If you are desperate to reach a ZRS C score, race in the races that suit you best and your competition is weakest!
Please note, your realistic competition does not follow ZRS scores, because it’s very easy to play this stupid system and end up at or near your 85% seed score (which could place you in a weaker pen, especially when your seed score is ~400+).
ZRS score does not equal ability.
It should roughly equal ability, but allowing ZRS to drop 15% below 5min seed score messes this up massively. The ZRS floor should be 100% seed score, going back 9+ months when data is available.
It’s not a vELO system.
You simply get points for finishing intop half of total signups for your pen, points for podium, points for new seed score and lose points for finishing in bottom half of total signups for your pen providing you put in enough effort (even if you finished exactly where you should by ability).
Signups that dont actually join or finish the race have no business affecting ZRS changes after the race, it’s complete nonsense!
I’m possibly confused myself (though think I am clear on the difference between Pace category and Racing score - I am currently in pace category C and racing score category D). I will try to explain clearly…
The lowest Zwift recommended category I could enter was for riders with racing scores of 270 - 390 which I believe was showing as Category C in the pre-race information - see screenshot in case it helps.
Therefore I was potentially racing against riders with a racing score of 390. If however the race had been segregated as per standard racing score categories the highest racing score for any competitor would have been 349. I would include a link to a Zwift racing score overview including bands for each category but posting rules don’t allow links.
Thanks Steve - I’m not so desperate that I am going to cherry pick; I suspect I’d just end up weaker / less able to compete if I do move up. I’d far rather take my time and hopefully become more rounded in the process.
I’m unclear on what you’re saying about seed score, maybe I need to look into that.
Okay, so I take it from what you say that the ZRS in its current form can be substantially out thus allowing riders of much higher actual ability compete in categories that they really shouldn’t be in.
But you’d hope that only happens with a small number of riders? Clearly though I don’t have the detailed knowledge of how ZRS is calculated to comment on this. And even a small number of riders is enough to deny someone a podium or result they’d otherwise have achieved.
How much do you know about the effort that goes into looking at and refining the racing score? Is this an ongoing process or have the relevant people at Zwift decided, for now at least, that racing score is fit for purpose?
I was aware of the website as it gives a different view on performance using the vELO system but had no idea you could see races / competitors on that basis too. Really appreciated, I will definitely be using this going forward.
Standard racing score categories was one of the worst ideas zwift have had in the last 18 months.
ZRS is built to allow the category boundaries to be set anywhere. Using the alternating ranges is a much better implementation, improving their event management systems to allow for dynamic pen assignment would be even better.
The old pace group categories resulted in people always being at the top, middle, or bottom of the pen. That’s really bad for those at the bottom, many of whom gave up on racing. With ZRS they should be doing everything they can to change that culture, to get people used to the idea that sometimes they will be one of the strongest, and sometimes they won’t.
This is part of the problem, too many riders think there should be a race level where they can always be competitive.
This is impossible to set up, with just 4-5 categories covering overweight beginners in their later years to actual professional riders.
My ZRS is 758 - no way I am beating the 950+ guys. If they don’t drop me, that’s a win. But I still love racing, as it’s a massive challenge to hang onto those guys, and if I do get dropped, i know plenty of other strong riders have been shelled out the back too (usually because someone with an anonymous profile is doing 7w/kg for minutes at a time at the front)
IRL, most of the participants don’t have a chance at winning. I raced elite in Europe years ago and just not getting dropped, finishing the race and being able to do something helpful for the Team was what mattered.
It’s not just that there are 5 categories. It’s also because most organizers choose to only have 1 event and then choose to try and cover the entire 0-1000 ZRS range with those 5.
OTOH, it’s also a matter of attendance and the number of events. I’m not sure, but to supposedly address your concern, Zwift has the “Advanced” category races in their ZR series, but then chose to only have a single category, which seems pointless IMO. They could have at least split these races to 3 sub-categories but made it a mass-start race, due to the attendance numbers.
Especially if you are colour blind, I spent 5 minutes trying to hang on to a group containing Cat Bs because I thought they had yellow dots on the map and were in my Cat D group.
Ideally yes, but as it is now, everyone is now all in the same cat anyway, so it’d be better than this as the current starting point. Even if the “Advanced” category was split to just A&B 2 cats (eg. 650-825 and 825-1000) it would likely be a better experience. At least you’d be doubling the number of podium winners
Strange that I hadn’t twigged 
Thank-you loads 
