Why so many 'A' and 'B' riders race in C category rides?

[Wannie (JOHN)]

@Dean

Zwiftpower entry lists will show what the rider’s ZP cat is vs the Cat they have entered. Handy for races but meaningless for group rides given group ride cats can mean anything (like different route, an age band etc). Here’s an example of an entry list for a Cat D group ride…

Probably the other thing to note is that Zwiftpower was developed for racers so the fact that it captures group ride data and uses that data to help assess riders race capability is a bonus.

That’s the question though. Why doesn’t the Results page include the ZP Cat of each rider, just like their entry page? Users can decide what’s meaningless and what isn’t. Race results don’t include either – why not?

[James_Zwift (James)]

The live tab shows this information.

[Wannie (JOHN)]

Cool hadn’t noticed that tab, but only shows ZP cat for Races, not Rides. I’d say let the users decide for themselves if they think there’s value seeing the ZP cats in a Ride. Hasn’t it been said that many will actually treat the TdZ stages as races – especially since there’s no ‘leader’ to upset by going off the front in any stage?

[James_Zwift (James)]

So I can kinda see why some event organisers want their group rides to appear in Zwiftpower but I don’t really think they should do.

I think they further muddy the categorisation issues - the number of events I run where I’m trying to work out whether or not to allow entries from people whose category is based on essentially group rides.

@Wannie

many will actually treat the TdZ stages as races

I’d say some rather than many. There’s a whole stack of people who just do these as social events. But yes, there are absolutely also those that treat them as races.

[Gerrie_Delport_ODZ (Gerrie)]

@Wannie

ZP cat for Races, not Rides.

As I said before RIDES are not races the Rider Zwiftpower Category has ZERO meaning in a group ride.

Comparing results in a group ride is meaning less. What is the point in saying you beat 7 A+ riders in a group ride when they were only doing Z2 easy recovery ride.

There is also no point to put a riders ranking in Race results because after filtering and DQ’s they will all be in the correct category.

[Wannie (JOHN)]

Except I’d say that your claim that there’s ZERO meaning applies to only yourself and some rides. Read Tim’s account of how he’s structured their AH rides that include races for the last 3rd of the ride. How would you classify a mass-start IRL Fondo that has times and placings at the end?

Still not really an explanation as to why ZP has stripped off the ZP categories from the Results (or Live) pages. If its of interest to see this in the ‘entries’, should be same or more interest to see these after the conclusion of the event.

[Dean]

@Wannie

Still not really an explanation as to why ZP has stripped off the ZP categories from the Results (or Live) pages.

Consider that maybe the backlog that the developers had included tidying up group ride data, but maybe they handed over the capability without finishing what they started and maybe Zwift got busy getting after features and fires that significantly impact people more.

Its kind of futile banging on about what is/appears broken - maybe focus on just understanding the current capability and helping people with the way it works, nuances and all.

[Wannie (JOHN)]

But the ZP cats do show for Races. So the ask is only they use the exact same format for Rides as well. That should be less effort than creating separately designed webages based on type of event.

[Dean]

@Wannie

So the ask is only they use the exact same format for Rides as well. That should be less effort than creating separately designed webages based on type of event.

Then make a feature request for it.

[Gerrie_Delport_ODZ (Gerrie)]

Even if there is a Sprint or mini race at the end of the Event it is still a group ride setup with group ride rules. It is basically just a free for all race to the line. Like I explained to you it is just like a group of friends sprinting for the town line. Some will go all out and others will just go along for fun. Comparing results in that situation is totally meaningless. If you want to race and compare results then enter a race.

@Wannie

why ZP has stripped off the ZP categories from the Results

You don’t need the ZP ranking in the results if you enter the C pen and you are a B Cat rider then you won’t be in the results, you will get a DQ or UPG therefore the C results page will only have C riders. No point to have a second column showing everyone is C.

[Wannie (JOHN)]

@Gerrie_Delport_ODZ

Even if there is a Sprint or mini race at the end of the Event it is still a group ride setup with group ride rules. It is basically just a free for all race to the line. Like I explained to you it is just like a group of friends sprinting for the town line. Some will go all out and others will just go along for fun. Comparing results in that situation is totally meaningless. If you want to race and compare results then enter a race.

I’ll simply agree to disagree here. I can’t claim to know what is meaningless to any and every other rider. For the example being discussed, I don’t think though for those rides with races at the end, that the participants find how they did as meaningless. In reality all of Zwift is meaningless from standpoint that there no prizes. Define what does and doesn’t have meaning.

@Wannie

why ZP has stripped off the ZP categories from the Results

@Gerrie_Delport_ODZ

You don’t need the ZP ranking in the results if you enter the C pen and you are a B Cat rider then you won’t be in the results, you will get a DQ or UPG therefore the C results page will only have C riders. No point to have a second column showing everyone is C.

I was referring to rides, not races. There is no DQ for rides and there’s no ZP cats shown for rides.

[Wannie (JOHN)]

Ok, but I understood that the ZwiftPower Community forum is where ZP requests should now reside. https://forums.zwift.com/t/zwiftpower-discussions-now-hosted-here-january-2021/527645