Velodrome Simulation

(Darren Hobson (Wincc)) #1

Are there any future plans to simulate track riding/racing? Was just reading another forum from the local track and lots of riders struggling to get track time or align their schedules around available sessions. Couldn’t help but think Zwift could be the solution.

Keirin track racing sessions
Start menu overhaul and more
Zwift Velodrome
(Daren) #2

It has been asked for many times. It’s quite a polarising suggestion. Some people love it, others poo-poo the idea.

One issue is that of “overcrowding”. Watopia can support thousands of riders because it has so much road to ride. But a velodrome is a short loop. How many riders could realistically use it at a time? 20? 30?

There are solutions such as instancing the velodrome (e.g creating a new one each time one gets full), but even with that people will say it’s not going to be like the real thing. You can’t ride up the banking or choose when to flick down and gain a jump (since there’s no steering in Zwift).

Personally I love the idea of running events like a Devil or team pursuit on a virtual velodrome, but the tech would need to be developed to support it.

Eric Min kinda dismissed the idea a year or so ago, but never say never. They said they’d never build a high mountain too, but along came Alpe du Zwift.

(Darren Hobson (Wincc)) #3

Thanks for some of the history on this one Daren. Maybe some day🤞

Super Common Feature Requests
(Danny Boyd) #4

Imooted the idea a while back regarding a velodrome that was like the Roubaix velo. you could enter and exit it as you pleased, and would be cool as a finish of some events. But i do see the point of say a thousand riders on it at once. ( a race can switch off other people, so no big deal ) but normal riding, hmm. i still would like a velo included on watopia somewhere tho.

(Daren) #5

Yeah I suggested the same thing. When you ride through the gate to the velodrome it could move you to an instanced version of it. When you ride out of the velodrome you get moved back to the main world.

The main problem I think would be the potential hiccup while the game loads the velodrome map.

(Daren) #6

I just posted this as a reply to someone else on Facebook, and thought it might as well come here too:

I understand that some people would find riding in 250m loops boring. Heck, riding a trainer indoors is inherently boring. That’s why we have Zwift in the first place. :wink:

I also get that a virtual track isn’t like a real one as things stand.

But, if we assume the coders at Zwift can work something out, then there’s a lot of fun to be had on a virtual velodrome. The things they could work out might include adding a way to move left or right, adding collision detection (and crashes?) to the game (these could both optionally benefit Zwift racing in general). Maybe steering is done using a keyboard or the app - after all those things are already needed to use powerups, give Ride Ons etc.

Given those things, the velodrome banking comes into play, so does positioning as you can’t just ride into someone. Once we have those things, all sorts of track formats could be viable. Devil take the Hindmost, Kierins, Points Races, etc. Maybe even Team Pursuit, Sprint races etc.

Personally I see lots that could be gained to make Zwift more compelling, especially as an esport - I at least find spectating track cycling more interesting that road races. Road races are good on the climbs, but they’re too long to make for good spectator fodder I think. That’s one reason for the Hammer series isn’t it? Track formats are much more rapid fire, and lend themselves better to the whole idea I reckon.

(A) #7

I like the idea!

The trick would be (like every other online game does it since the 90s …):

  1. start a server (inside zwift) with the apropiate map (in this case omnium)
  2. set indoor or outdoor
  3. set length of round
  4. set max rounds
  5. set number of participants (f.ex. 1 to 20 or x to y) to limit confusion due to many riders
  6. set valuation 5 pts for 1st 3 pts for 2nd 2 pts for 3rd and 1 pt for 4th place
  7. set valuation for 1 extra round in points (20 pts extra f.ex) or if 1 round values more then points
  8. set allowed powermeter tools (f.ex. srm, quark, p2m, garmin, …) to avoid z-power super inet mutants ecetera
  9. set weight limit from x to y kg
  10. open server and wait till participants are complete
  11. if participants are complete server/world/race starts

All in all this would be overkill and boost zwift to a real online game level. Races would matter more on power less on weight if aerodynamic physics would be correctly installed also.

(Kevin Ct) #8

I can definetly see this working as an instanced map, or even as a race/event only kinda thing. Companion controls left/right can move your character to a higher or lower position on the banking.

(. Nicholai [703]) #9

I would love a velodrome map! Using it as a solo practice room would be awesome, and it would match a lot of other competitive games. A competitive game like DotA has its main map to play, but if you wanted to practice by yourself you could go to the smaller practice map and try things out.

A velodrome map could also be used as earlier mentioned in the thread as a private map. Maybe if another zwifter wanted to challenge me 1v1, this would be perfect! Or, if I was onboarding someone new to zwift, it could provide a personal and private setting for instruction (although tbh the main map is not that stressful, maybe if the new person was nervous about other people seeing their stats at first).

I am just gonna take initiative and suggest the Omnisport Apeldoorn as a model for the velodrome layout, it is simply beautiful! This youtube video serves as a great introduction to the infectious excitement of the particular velodrome

(Z Kryder) #10

I’ve ridden the BKool velodrome. It kind of gets boring but at least you can try for a one hour effort. You can ride with real video or virtual velodrome. Try it, then give Zwift your feedback.

(Asbjorn Ravn Rasmussen) #11

Now I haven’t read the entire thread, but here’s my take on a possible solution :slight_smile:

Velodrome would be fecking great, but for me at least, it would be for racing purposes only. I think it would be a server-kinda thing as mentioned above. So there’s always one public, with a time limit (or 20 participants) for the given race (eg. one for points race, one for scratch etc.). Then you should also be able to make closed (with password, the good old way) friendly servers where people can spectate perhaps. But I don’t see this as a training thing, it should be racing purposes only.
I second the thoughts of using keyboard or phone or tablet for moving around, and there should definetly be an engine with collision control and (de)acceleration when moving on the banks.

All in all it would just be really cool to do some track racing, whether it’s points races, madison, team/individual pursuit/sprint and so forth (yay for hour records). I think it would be awesome to compete against friends on a velodrome, or when the weather is to bad on a winter-camp the team could compete a little on a Zwift velodrome.

I reckon it exists on BKool software, so why shouldn’t even more competent people in Zwift be able to create it :smiley:

Cheers and happy new year

(Anton) #12

Agree. I’ve used the BKool velodrome for hour efforts. The power delivery is consistent since all gradients are removed. Even when using ERG mode in Zwift I can tell when I’m hitting an uphill or down hill section without looking at the screen as the resistance change momentarily. Besides racing and hour efforts I can also see it being useful for warm-up efforts before a ‘road’ race. I believe it could add value to what Zwift is offering. Maybe a user can spawn an instance where others can join up to a max number or you join an existing instance if it is ‘open’.

(Raino) #13

Elimination or points race could be great fun. Track cycling is lot of fun, but it is just so dangerous in real life. Of course it would be good to have some way to steer the bike so you could ride up the bank and drop in to take the lead.