Started and finished ZRL race in D cat and was disqualified a week later

I had a very interesting conversation with WTRL regarding an inquiry I made trying trying to understand why a someone from our team was disqualified from a ZRL TTT race.

According to WTRL and their data he was disqualifed because he was not in the correct category at the start of the race. I was informed that it did not matter that Zwift Power data showed he was in the correct category. He was within the category limits but very close to upgrading.

I expressed my concern that we only have access to Zwift Power data and if this is not accurate, how are we to know if we can legitimately enter a race without fear of being disqualified. If you are very close to upgrading and Zwift Power still shows that you are the correct category, is it possible that the data WTRL receives can indicate you are in the next category.

Has anyone come across this scenario before?

I am not convinced this was the reason the team was disqualified. What brought up a red flag for me is that the person received a Code 1 and the team received Codes 16 & 1.

Code 1: Rider declined to join team

Code 16: TTT team DQ

This is what I suspected happened and I wanted to confirm with WTRL if this scenario was possible. The person I corresponded with was adamant that the only reason for disqualification was the person was over the category - case CLOSED!

Race 4 TTT:

Person was cat D according to Zwift Power and he was allowed to enter the race using RacePass.

Results of race on ZwiftPower shows he was cat D and he did not exceed power limits for the race.

However he did upgrade as a result of the race; though I don’t think that’s a cause for disqualification

WTRL maintains according to their data, he was cat C at the start of the race and that is the reason he was disqualified. Is there any way to determine what categrory WTRL thinks you are or are we just reliant on Zwift Power?

Race 5 Points Race:

In the following race, the person attempted to join the pen in order to DS the race. I suspect that this was what caused his removal from the team.

What I wanted to confirm is: Is it possible when somone has been removed from the team that this can cause previous race results to be affected.

It would be easier to pass comment if you’d be happy to link to their Zwiftpower profile. WTRL race limits are often lower than those on Zwiftpower and they don’t use Zwiftpower for results, so it is entirely possible the rider was over the race limit and therefore disqualified by WTRL and showing as such on their system, but not on Zwiftpower.

We have all had those “interesting” conversations. It would be good to have some experienced first line support perhaps , rather than having developers do this. It is probably biggest negative with these ZRL events that are otherwise very competitive and generally enjoyable.

Its also IMO anyway a problem that this series has diverged from the Zwiftpower platform maybe without providing something equivalent at least for the sorts of self service diagnositics you are trying to do.

Its great that WTRL might want to create a different one , but they haven’t so far , its still very limited .
That said , you do have a “team management” page . And on that it shows

  1. If the member is in the team and has accepted it … if they have you can share that with WTRL
  2. If the member is in the category expected , if they are you can share that with WTRL.

So the rider in question will have an icon under the Cat column ( unless he is A+ which doesn’t show , UI bug) . and under Status you should see the green icon with the tick) . If both of those are as expected you can dispute the conclusion IMO .

Also in race results you should see something like this

image

The riders CAT is listed . That should show if the conclusion is correct or not .

In addition its not outside the rules I beleive for some riders to be OVER category .
The image I shared for example is from a B division race , having 2 A category riders probably went a long way to helping that team win that race :thinking:

You shouldn’t be disqualified for going over CAT at this stage of the season IF you have ridden before but I would read the full rules around this as its quite a lot of small print to see if that is the case here .

Good luck with that .

1 Like

This is no longer the case. If you go significantly over limits you’ll still be out for the season. As you say, lots of small print and it seems to change on a whim.

1 Like

Additional info added (can’t seem to add link)

ZP id 1270958
ZP event id 2706618 (ZRL race on Feb 1st)

I’m afraid they make up the rules on a whim. Doesn’t matter if you are right.

1 Like

From Team Management page it shows he is D cat. His status now shows he is removed from the team but this changed the week later.

That’s unfair, they’ve also built a world class computer program for finding cheats and it never ever gets things wrong.

I also can’t work out why he’d have been a DQ but as James points out, that doesn’t really matter, WTRL have spoken and they are never wrong.

4 Likes

It’s so frustrating trying to reason with them. They maintain that he was cat C when he crossed the start line of the race according to their data. Tried to argue that Zwift Power showed he was cat D and event on ZP clearly shows D for the race. Clearly it doesn’t matter what shows up on Zwift Power, their data is correct. I give up!

2 Likes

Ah , well I think that falls under the issue and primary negative statement I raised at the start :face_with_open_eyes_and_hand_over_mouth: I also did tend to find that the application of these adhoc rules was quiet arbitary and that lost me a lot of team members who just couldnt be bothered with it.
So the above screenshot appears to have let a team win an event with 2 above category riders before start yet our OP finds themselves DQ with only 1 not even over cat but putting in a good performance.

2 Likes

I suspect at this point they have done a post race re-calculation parse of the data to fix something and it had a bug in it that found your team mates current team status and assumed it was the case at time of race . (if what you have posted is the correct with codes and when the DQ happened).

As others have stated they wont own up to that and will just frustrate you as they have me until you give up.

I know its too late but I am not sure why they left the team as you have plenty free slots , you could try rejoining them (if thats possible I seem to remember if someone left a team as shown it would block them rejoining) .then raising the case again with the screenshot showing the member was AOK. If you can be bothered that is as the event is , despite having Zwifts name on it is not supported by Zwitt , and as I said short of a good support desk.

Yes you are probably right about the post race re-recalculation. The disqualification did not happen until the next race when he was removed from the team for trying to join the pen (he had upgraded to C and was planning to DS from the pen). We noticed the DQ only because our team had dropped from the team standings as the entire team was DQ because it was a TTT. Our team manager sent an email to WTRL about the DQ and was informed they only look at inquiries 12 hr after results are finalized. At this point I just wanted some confirmation from WTRL that this situation was a possibility. Well now I know not to bother. Thank you it’s just nice to have somewhere to vent my frustrations.

2 Likes

Yep makes no sense to me either.

If you are still speaking to WTRL I would ask them to identify the 3 races that would of put them in cat c before the TTT as I can’t see how he would of been a C when the TTT started and didn’t go over power in that race. As you say would of upgraded after based on that race but it should not effect the TTT.

2 Likes

I tried to show them that nothing on Zwift Power going back 90 days put him in cat C, they didn’t care just kept repeating their data showed he was cat C - like you said there is no reasoning with them, they are always right. Final email I got went something like we can exchange emails forever, but their data shows he was cat C.

1 Like

They are looking only at races…and he did a WTRL Chase Race just before new year and had 95% of 20min at 2.58W/kg. But why did they let him start 2 ZRL Races before DQ him…only WTRL knows.

Their rules are quite clear they use Zwiftpower categories, this takes the average of your best 3 in the last 90 days, so 1 chase race was not enough to put him in DlC cat.

2 Likes

If the reason was upgrade then the error code would have been completely different.
Personally from experience I would give it up as you will only get more frustration.

At the moment this series is the only game in town as far as Zwift were concerned and it enjoys an elevated position in the calendar as a result. I think largely due to the understandable pressure of that and not really having a support and other required capability it has exposed some weaknesses in the WTRL organisation…
.
Enjoy what you can and let things go when that is not the case, If the fun stops , stop.
Things might change soon on all above as Zwift open up to others to access the same.

2 Likes

Oh I have already given up. When I first approached them I naively thought that given all the facts they would at least give me a reasonable explanation, now I know better. In the future I won’t even bother, the frustration is just not worth it.

4 Likes

I think that happens to everyone.
We all approach with a reasonable issue and end up jaded by the experience.

It isn’t good enough from a “Zwift” branded event - no matter who runs it IMHO. The complete lack of transparency like this just undermines any fairness to the racing, again IMO.

4 Likes