Yes, I think that most people that.
What is unclear is what values a ramp test uses.
It uses “approx 75% of your last full minute” but fair to say its not the complete picture. Good article here
Knowing what my FTP is based on 95% of a 20 minute effort (also closely correlated with Xert’s estimate), I don’t think that I could hold the number that I need to on the last minute of a ramp test to get the same FTP.
I really only use my FTP for training in preparation for hill races, specifically Mt. Washington.
But since that race takes me over an hour, and the latter part of it is at a significant altitude, my average power is below my FTP. This climb is unique because it’s 7.6 miles, averages a 12% grade, doesn’t get below 6%, and kicks up to 22% at the end. There is nowhere to recover, so power output has to remain constant.
My average power was ~92% of my FTP, and it took me 1:12 to complete.
Agreed that short power cyclists may overinflate their ftp in a ramp test.
I don’t think that a strong short power profile is body size dependant though. Strong XCO riders are small, light, anerobic repeat animals as an example of an entire segment of cyclists.
75% of your highest power minute, which should be your last minute. If you try to hold on though for 10 more seconds and are putting out crao power as the spiral of death takes over then thise lastv10 seconds do not count. That’s my understanding. That’s also why I just really go to exhaustion and just quit. No sense in torture if it don’t count for anything.
Personally, I find the 20min test more taxing than the full 1h. One hour is long enough so that if you run out of steam then the power just starts tapering off. Of course it gets easier when you know the ballpark figure to aim for as there is less risk over starting to ambitious and break down at the 35 min mark…
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20 min Test are not super accurate just because everyone can achieve different W’ values …
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I always do my FTP tests on the KOM route. I like that what I feel and what I see (a really long hill) jive. For whatever reason, going all out on a flat course isn’t as motivating for me.
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I “think” the ramp test overestimated my FTP value for whatever reason (I also come from a MTB background so maybe that has something to do with it, maybe not), so tomorrow I am going to try to see how I do on my first 20-min FTP test. For me the route won’t matter due to ERG - as mentioned the route is set to flat on the free-ride section, so I’ll probably just use the Alpe to get more vertical.
What is a bit strange to me is that there are two versions of the test (the shorter, and regular 20 min test). The regular one has a 5 min block above FTP that seems like it would tire me out before the actual 20 mins, rather than warm me up (particularly if my FTP is set too high from the ramp test, so I probably have to bump myself down before starting), but I might try it anyhow just to see how it goes since that’s the test they use at the end of the workout plan that I’m on anyhow.
Pretty sure I will not be able to hit my ramp test value with the 20 min test. I really wish the ramp test gave me a number I had confidence in because I actually enjoy the ramp test, where I know the 20 min test is just going to be torture for me, and not something I really want to do again.
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haha … couldnt agree more! I’m sure the purists / coaches are probably screaming at your comment though!
From what I can tell from feedback (and personal experience) we all have a method that works for us. I’ve taken the pain out of it and just use intervals.icu now as I really dont get a buzz out of doing FTP tests. So long as I have some good hard races or a Ven-top or two now and then, I know its about right.
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I heard a few folks talk about that, it ‘sounds’ like it’s free and that I can just download one of my recent hard activity’s .fit files and see what it tells me? Is it that easy?
I’ve got it plugged into Strava so its updated as I go. It can also load from Garmin, if you capture from there.
You can certainly upload fit files but its most useful for trends, as you will see. And yep, donation supported, so worth a shot.
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Maybe the OP should try that too if the ramp test isn’t working well for them either…
I don’t pay for premium Strava so I don’t think they keep enough power data to sync and work well - is that correct, or is premium strava not a requriement to make this flow work?
Premium not required! So what you might have to do is manually load up past activities, (which may or may not trigger FTP changes) and then keep Strava link going.
When looking in intervals.icu, look out for the eFTP, as thats the one that is auto-adjusted.
It also keeps your manually set FTP as reference for data analysis as well.
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Ok, so I did import everything from strava. Maybe this will be interesting to the OP, I’ll describe what it did in my case…
For me the interesting thing is it used my FTP test as my highest FTP measurement, but instead of the ramp’s FTP it gave me a lower FTP… Isn’t that odd? Like the ramp test itself told me my FTP was 289, while the intervals.icu eFTP for that exact same effort shows it as 276… Now, 276 is much more in line with what I’m noticing in my workouts, I’m just surprised that in the case of a formal FTP test the intervals.icu measurement and the ramp FTP are not the same.
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Coincidently, I was just unplugging my Garmin 1030 from charging and it popped up a Training Status screen and included its latest version of my FTP, which is 249w. so both algo’s seem aligned (not sure if they use same methodology or not).
Here’s an interesting article on the ramp test which seems to be written by the person who created it: Is the MAP (Ramp) Test a Valid Estimator of FTP? — CycleCoach | Personal cycling coach
tl;dr - “This is really where both Zwift and Trainer Road have got the details slightly wrong. Although they both spoke to me, and I made it clear, I explicitly stated that someone’s FTP was NOT 75% of MAP, I said it would fall into the range of 72 - 77% for the vast majority. However, the software as it is wants or needs a definitive, specific answer and they plumped with 75%.”
It’s said that your FTP will be higher outdoors than indoors for various reasons, and I think the ramp test gives me a number that reflects my outdoor FTP. I haven’t done a 20 minute test in ages but can’t imagine riding at 5% over my ramp test FTP number for 20 minutes, at least not on Zwift. Outdoors, uphill, in a race/event/group ride, on a cool day? Possibly… and much more likely, of course, if I took the 72% number instead of the 75% number.
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The ramp test is skewed towards short (e.g. 1-5 minute) power. So it’ll likely give you an overestimated figure if you’re good at that, and an underestimated one if you’re not.
The only good thing about the ramp test IMHO is that there’s no pacing involved, unlike the 20 minute test which is very hard to judagey, so usually needs a few goes to get so you can empty the tank by the very end and not before.
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That is the OG 20min test protocol and the point was to have a full gas 5min effort to drain some of your anaerobic work capacity, recover a bit, then take 95% of your 20min power. Personally, I think the way zwift and zwiftpower will take 95% of any 20min effort causes confusion with the ‘real’ protocol.
Likewise, ramp test basically gets your maximal aerobic power (MAP), which I believe is pretty close to 5min mean-maximal power for most people, and roughly power @VO2max. Using 75% of MAP as your FTP estimate works for people whose FTP is 75% of MAP, but if you are much stronger anaerobically can overestimate FTP and if you are much stronger aerobically will underestimate FTP. Personally, I am much strong aerobically and ramp tests underestimate FTP by about 10%.
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Is OG 20 min test the same as the Oh G-o-d 20 min FTP test?
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