Require "Braking" in Turns to Increase Realism

Gerrie, under Zwift’s current set-up, you’re right.

If Zwift adds auto-braking, if you go full power into the turn, your avatar will still slow in the “braking zone”, so you’ll probably need to spike the power coming out of the turn to get back up to speed quickly enough to hang with the pack (assuming they accelerate out of the corner as you typically see IRL).

Don’t get me wrong I am all for the Idea. i just don’t think it is possible, or I’m just not seeing the big picture. 

Mark do you suggest that Zwift make us crash? That will be an interesting aspect to the game. Different speeds gives you different cornering lines.

Fred: the braking zone is just a speed number, nothing is reducing my power output.

 

It’s perfectly possible, as I say the likes of Tacx Training Software has been using exactly this feature for years now, and Road Grand Tours implements it too.

During braking the same thing would happen to your power as it would if you kept pedalling while braking in real life as in it would be wasted, which is why an indication that your avatar is on the brakes is needed.

And no, I don’t suggest Zwift lets us crash unless they implement a way to let us control the brakes ourselves, which is a different thing entirely.

I think we are getting a consensus here! 

As far as braking indicator, the avatar could be on the hoods, in a more upright position and stop pedaling or even a very slow RPM reverse pedaling (that would indicate braking) . 

We are getting closer. 

So it is all about the visual effect, Power number, speed number and cadence number drop as you go into a turn. Is that true?

That wont force me to produce more power coming out of the turn since i’m still pedaling as hard as I were before entering the turn.

How would Zwift account for the inertial differences between flywheels on “dumb” trainers? Larger flywheels spin down more slowly and maintain more momentum.

 

<comment deleted due to change of mind!>

Unrealistic speed and covered distance is the main criticism on Zwift in Internet reviews. It’s the main reason why some people try it,  and decide not to subscribe. So we should let Zwift management decide if attracting new customers is worth their development efforts. If I were in their shoes, it would be on top of my list. 

 

While I agree with you François, I wonder if there are also a lot of folks who like the unrealistic speed/distance on Zwift because it makes their Strava numbers seem more impressive.

We all compare strava numbers to the same course with the same braking parameters. Yes it may show that you can hold a higher average speed and power, does that really matter the real test is when you go out on the road after a long winter. I will probably never ride in London or Richmond and for sure not in Watopia but I can compare my times to Zwift rides i did in the fall and see if I improved.

Having an UN-calibrated power meter,trainer or even a dumb trainer has a much bigger effect than braking at a few turns. 

The turns in races is where the groups get split up and yes we don’t have that in any software and we have to live with that, we also don’t have cross wind or potholes or traffic or punctures.

Scrap punctures I got one last week. :frowning:

 

 

The simple thing to do if Zwift was to add this ‘feature’ would be to automatically slow the rider down to a realistic cornering speed. Resistance would not be reduced, however, in real life we all coast and pedal out of the turn. The rider would then have to hammer out of the turn back to speed. I think this would give us a ‘real world’ feel. Not sure about you, but 32-34 mph into a u-turn is sure disaster in real life.

P.Ozier:  I dont understand if it is only numbers that change on the screen why would I have to hammer out of the turn?

If im doing 300w on my Garmin gps and zwift going into the corner and zwift “slow me down” showing 100w then when I come out of the corner my legs will still do 300w (shown on the gps) and zwift will just ramp up the power to the real 300w value.

 

 

Okay … awesome thread, and I can see all sides to this one!

What if…

  1. you made it optional. You have the option to turn it off or on in the settings save for events. For events, the planner to the event would have their say as to whether or not to use the feature. [Side point: I have long ago given up on KOMs being remotely accurate in Zwift … it seems like the the e-dopers really love the KOMs!]

  2. you put a little “risk” in it. Let me explain…there would be a spectrum of speeds that a rider could take through a turn. Let’s say you take the turn at 20 mph and got through it safely. However, let’s say you decide to take the turn at 21 mph and this time you crash! It would add a strategic element to races…are you going to take the risk and miscalculate the turn? Or are you going to play it safe and slow down to 15 mph.

  3. Some trainers will take to braking better than others. For the dumb “non-brake” trainers, you could set up a keyboard option (much like direction thing) that lets you choose what you are going to risk. Your speed would then automatically slow down to the cornering speed at an appropriate location.

  4. Ignore half of my ideas as I am not convinced myself that they are all that great.

I’ve just found this thread after coming here to request automatic braking and the ability to power out of a corner. Coming down the mountain on Watopia and being able to take the tight corners at full speed is very unrealistic as has been pointed out. On a smart trainer I would expect the resistance on the trainer to increase for say 5 seconds (as if I was hitting a climb) from the time I hit the apex before easing off. This then replicates what happens in the real world. It doesn’t need to be a lot of resistance but enough so that if I wanted to throw out some big watts I could, plus it would necessitate having to change gears.

For dumb trainers and smart trainers the speed would automatically be reduced coming into the corner so that the speed was more real world. On both dumb and smart they would then need to get on the power coming out of the corner to get back up to speed to take advantage of the descent.

I can’t actually see too many issues getting this to work. Just needs implementing then Beta testing with some fine tuning to get it to work properly.

Just tried the alpha version of “Road Grand Tours” and this has auto braking into corners when descending. Descending in that virtual cycling app is a quantam leap more realistic than descending in Zwift. So if they can do it I can’t see why Zwift can’t do it as well.

Nigel, agree 100%

 

What is realistic? For me it is allot slower than what I get coming off the Alps.