Racing performance and power numbers improve - Racing score goes down

Racing
1

I was promoted to A in June.

It was really hard at first, getting dropped a lot.

Now I am able to finish most races (I tend to only choose well attended ones) in the main group, although as I am not a sprinter, I am usually at the back of this group.

However, I race aggressively, staying close to the front, closing gaps, taking big turns and looking to get in any break. I do this because I don’t have a sprint.

In the last month I have set new PBs for 5s, 15s, 30s, 1m, 5m, 10m, 12m and 15m power averages. Honestly, the improvement has been significant.

You’d think my ZRS would improve, right? Higher power numbers? not getting dropped in well attended A category races? Finishing A races with similar overall w/kg average as the best placed riders?

But no, it is going down every week. How?

It seems like this system is unfair on riders who aren’t blessed with high 30s power. Or that Zwift thinks you are a poor racer if you finish last in the group you are in, despite having ridden the hardest in that group.

Some elite riders don’t have elite anaerobic power. Also, plenty of low level riders or even beginners, have high 30s power output.

I just did the Korea cat and mouse chase race and came 11th in the Zwift power results, with 4.2 w/kg average (322).

There are two riders who were dropped and finished 1.30 and 2.45 behind me with far higher race scores than me, I mean guys in the upper 700s. Their race scores are over 100 points higher than mine, yet they got dropped and I didn’t. In fact, the amount of pulls I did on the front mean I probably dropped them.

Yet my score goes down after this race??

It almost seems like ‘racing placings’, w/kg for the race as a whole, and how your result / time compares to your opponents (and their scores) in any particular race don’t seem to be relevant to your ZRS.

It seems that if you don’t have a big sprint, you will have a low racing score, and there’s nothing you can do about it. You can match the podium riders on average w/kg for the whole race, but if you haven’t got much of a sprint, they’ll have 800 going up and you’ll have 600 going down.

It’s mad - I have a lower race score than many B riders who are miles behind me on FTP and MAP and would get promptly dropped in any A race. I mean, let’s think about that: riders who (would) get dropped in races I finish in the lead group have a significantly higher racing score than I do.

This makes no sense to me.

It seems as though the main performance metric that matters is your 30s power - which is more genetic than ‘fitness’ or something that responds significantly to training.

This measurement metric needs to be looked at.

2

the only races that count for zrs are those with “racing score” explicitly stated in the name. the feature leaves beta on october 7, at which point most* races will use the feature

*invite only events and other alternative formats used by leagues excepted

3

Ok, that’s clear.

But why did my score go down after riding a race that isn’t part of this system?

4

there’s a decay of around a fraction of a point per day that sets in after a while after the last time you did complete a zrs event. i don’t know if you’ve ever done one of the events or how recently that was, but that probably explains it

i’m hoping the FAQ will be updated on october 7th to cover these small details

5

aha, now it makes sense. I actually avoid the ZRS races because the higher categories are poorly attended. It’s no fun doing a race with 7 people.

Thanks!

I do still think that 30s power should be way less of a factor in determining this score.

6

agreed. i like big attendance numbers too so the high split i’m personally in has made me pick another event a few times during beta. i think people are probably hesitant for one reason or another… but that shouldn’t be too much of an issue once they do roll it out. people tend to race what’s available

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7

There was also a racing score reset Sep 25 so think about whether that might have affected the numbers you’re looking at

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8

When the system is fully live, it won’t matter that much. They used it to set an initial baseline, but after that, it’s racing results that matter.

9

Apart from for new racers joining Zwift, existing racers creating a new account, and existing racers who take a break and whose score goes back to their seed-based value, you mean?

10

they’ll get there. it is what it is… i cant imagine anyone trying CE or ZP for the first time all those years ago and having the first experience i did wanting to do it twice. the only reason i stuck with it is because i am deranged

11

Though he said his 30s and 10min power PBs have also gone up, and those can be taken from any activity.

12

100% agree…it’s the problem and i hope ZHQ will do something to make Seed Formula better ASAP.
@Nick_ZHQ :point_up_2:

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13

Exactly.

5 min power (V02 max) is probably the most effective measurable to determine ability, but the whole system seems driven more by ‘how can we reduce sandbagging’ than ‘how can we classify riders by ability’.

Sandbaggers want to stay in a managable category but win, so they underperform on longer durations and unleash a massive sprint so they can podium.

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14

And that is still as much possible in the new system than it was in the CE system.