Interesting. I’ve never seen it, even when it seems to me that I’m clearly being held back.
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well it is likely not what is causing the issues now that are stopping you from moving forward, I have a feeling it is PD5, not the autobraking function
When this happens, stop pedaling for 2 seconds, and you will break the draft. Your prior power will be used to calculate speed, and you will move up.
Yes, this is as flawed as it sounds.
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So the solution is to do the sticky watts? 
(Not laughing at you, just saying that’s funny.)
You don’t even need sticky watts, but if you have them it’s more pronounced.
Maybe it was tweaked to make people forget that pace dynamics changes exist. I’ve never seen the red numbers.
I don’t even sprint there and I end up getting parked behind people. In the Constance group the robopacer magically zooms away with 4 or 5 people and the other 20 get stuck behind someone going slower and it is very difficult to get past unless I do big power and even then it’s really difficult. If I can steer outside of the group that’s easier - but if I’m trapped behind people and also boxed in I can do nothing except use the teleport to escape. 
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One of the things I am finding with PD5 is you can sail through a pack if you have the right conditions.
Drop off the back of the pack then speed up to ride back through the pack.
It seems that if you are 2 or 3km/h faster than the pack then you are immune to the sticky draft. You can then enjoy the normal draft benefits as you roll up through the middle of the pack and out the front.
I’ve been able to ride through a pack of riders doing 2.5w/kg while I was only doing 2w/kg simply by dropping back a bit then sprinting to hit the back of the pack a few km/h faster and then I can back off and easily cruising through the pack and out the front.
If you try to accelerate from inside the pack then yeah, the sticky draft just saps all your watts and it is like treacle.
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This is true with PD4 as well. It makes for a great launch technique through rollers and sprints if timed correctly.
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Yep. The body checking is very egregious, and when it started happening before PD5 was announced, I assumed I was being maliciously trolled or bullied. Not exactly the feeling you want to have when riding with others 
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Here is the thread for this and the most recent Zwift response:
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Not really pack dynamics but it is something that really affects my ability to stay in a pack is the lack of momentum, especially noticeable in rolling terrain and with trainer difficulty set to 100%. The resistance just hits so hard all of a sudden even when going really fast and the other way around too when reaching a zenith but speed is still slow resistance just drops. It just feels so unnatural…
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On a pacer ride today, I got unceremoniously shoved out of the draft by a coffee stop rider not even pedalling. What an insult to my efforts 
!!!
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Caffeine can lead to increased aggression.
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Indeed, I must watch out for the caffeine hooligans!
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A lot of users here make suggestions for detailed behaviour, but I think the whole topic is too complex to be solved issue by issue. It is good that Zwift is still developing and testing this and I apppreciate Jon’s post on the topic. As I said before, Zwift should dare to be more open and we should limit our moaning and just give some constructive hints of ride scenarios that cause problems and create ideas without some of the entitlement of knowing it all better.
The one suggestion I would make is to think about different settings in group rides/open world riding vs. races. I think people in a group ride do not want to battle for position but rather enjoy a smooth ride, whereas I think it would be ok that moving up in races costs you extra energy.
It adds a tactical momentum that you have IRL as well while Zwift racing does not need to completely mimic IRL dynamics. You want to conserve energy and wait for an attack point? - Stay at the back and live with the risk that the pack might split in front of you. You want to cover attacks? - Invest more power to maintain a position towards the front. You aim for a break away? Power up and shoot out the front knowing that only the riders near the front can follow you instantly. You are a sprinter just waiting for the final 500 m? Bring some friends that will move you up if the pack splits.
For this to work, I guess Zwift would have to use the same steering algorithm for everybody and to allow other input devices for steering, so people can ride out to the side and overtake in the wind (if there is space on the road): companion app, keyboard, games controller DIY two button USP inputs. The decision to make steering proprietary hardware-wise is really screwing a lot of users.
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What about having precise steering and braking controls and bringing in collisions in racing.
If you get too close, down you go (or the whole pack goes down).
Just like car sim racing.
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Long time zwift rider and lazy forum dweller. I can attest to my personal view that the dynamics are super tweaked.
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I am now constantly thrown left and right and when that happens at times I can go from 8 to 30 seconds ahead of the pacer bots to behind the pacer bots.
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Once I clear the pacer bots doing the same or less watts I can continue to break away
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The surge of the pacer bots IE doing the “wattage” of the pacer bot and being ahead (5 to 10 seconds) with a group of 5 to 10 riders. When you look at the map and see “closing distance” of the pacer bot and before you know it. They have caught you again
4 The sticky draft reminds me of 2022. I was doing zone 1 training @ 1.5wkg and held a 2.2 rider on the flats behind me for 10 to 15 seconds. I am a light rider being 5 foot 5 and around 61 to 63 kilos. That to me represents an epic fail in every facet of cycling
- The coffee shop shows and represents just how bad the sticky draft is as I have tested it with quite a few of the pacer bots. I would say 25 to 30% of the time I will latch on to a slower rider for no reason at all. This is on the flats or a slight climb or even downhill…it covers all 3 out of the 4 extremes. The 4th being severe climbs which I dont do. I find this also when just latching onto riders doing the same speed as me as well. There were a pack of us 2.2ish and when I returned with about 20 seconds left. (happened multiple times) I would be with someone who was doing less watts than me. When I say returned. I walk on the treadmill beside my bike to keep my legs moving. I can see what is happening. I just break the draft with the group I was with
The situations of having uniformity seem all over the board and I cant figure this out at all. I understand zwift is a game and I am not leaving or mad. I am just giving my insight. Do I like the 2022 sticky draft NO, do i like being tossed from the peleton and pushed left or right losing my position NO, do I like zwift Yes.
II wish we would rollback the game to pre 2022 draft before the sticky draft was introduced. It was fun it was fast and the game was more consistent for even smaller riders. I knew I could start my break at 1.5KM because I am not sprinting with the big dogs. If I didnt win it was still fun because not being beat at the line was amazing. I no longer race so I am not bothered by the game dynamics.
Though as a casual rider I am still bothered by how the game now reacts. I like to think KISS is sometimes the best thing. The game wasnt broken in 2022 but zwift had to keep &^^ing with the secret sauce game algorithm. That would be my wish. It would be great for new zwifters to see that side of the game. It also kept my wattage more flatlined.
Thats my input from almost 8 years of riding on zwift. My biggest pet peeve is still the change to pacer bots “uphills and downhill” why just why? I want a nice steady state ride.
My 3 biggest wishes…
Pre 2022 game before the sticky draft
Pre pacer bots increasing decreasing watts up and down hills
Pre moving my avatar out of the &*^%&%*ing draft and making me drop my position
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Really, to me the new pack dynamics are so bad that my first reaction was thinking about cancelling my subscription. Of course it had just renewed a day or two earlier so my second thought was to give it a few more weeks, but I can’t say my opinion has changed in the mean time.
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Whatever is happening here feels 100% broken. In a pack, with steering on, and get shoved out of the pack and can’t steer back in regardless if there are open spots. I am constantly mashing down on the steering controls to put myself back into the pack regardless if I’m pedaling and going a constant speed or w/kg like the rest of the pack.
I’m regularly “steered” towards whoever is in front of me regardless of similar speed resulting in my avatar removing himself from the pack and shift over to another rider the pack is passing, this happens even in TTT which completely throws alternating the front rider, the pace, and the smoothness of transition.
I get shooting for realize of not clipping through others but being shoved out of a pack dynamic because to coast for a second or aren’t 100% matching the person in front of you isn’t “real” either. Slower riders would have to go around said person. I’m honestly thinking of turning off steering completely until this is fixed because it’s become more of a hassle with steering and constantly pressing buttons than just letting the game do whatever.
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wasn’t it sticky draft until 2022? your memory might be better than mine though. but i do know pd3 went in the totally opposite direction to pd2 (which definitely did have sticky draft) and that was probably my favourite version.
i think the insane descent speeds from being able to supertuck mid pack etc were what made the racing one dimensional in that era but as far as being able to break away and stuff it was really quite good. as far as this pd5 goes, i dunno. it’s taking me a while to get used to it, but it’s not a big deal. i do tailgun a lot though
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