Just got blown by a couple bots (B then A) in the volcano named Hillclimbintro. The A bot at least was doing 1000w/13.3wkg. What’s the deal?

Related suggestion, make the faster bots weigh less. A bot 65kg, B 70kg, C 75kg, D 80kg for example. Would improve group dynamics.

Personally I’m glad the bots are the same weight, it leads to more predictability in terms of power required when moving from one to the other and less variablity between hills and flats for the average Zwifter (since the bot weights are about the weight of the average Zwifter). If the A bot was very light they might not be pushing a lot of power on flat at 4.2 w/kg, but 4.2w/kg on climbs would make it a huge power swing for anyone over 75kgs.

I think these bots are set in the pens to give a text intro/instructions before the race begins. You’re not supposed to follow or ride with them; they’re supposed to run away into the distance to not affect anything in the race… :man_shrugging:

This occurred during a free ride

I’ve watched them before. When the event ends at the custom distance they reappear in the world with all the other riders (same as what happens to you in that scenario) for a minute or so and then they end their ride and disappear.

The A bot used to weight 65kg and everyone survived fine on the very mountainous courses it sometimes did. The pace was steady 4.2w/kg all the time, even downhill.

To me it seems like they are skewed too much towards flat rides. If Constance rode up epic KOM and radio tower, it would be doing 345w at 4.6w/kg… not too realistic.

But I suppose people are happy getting their 100km ride in record time on Tempus or Triple Flat loops.

Lol. Whenever I ride TFL folk are moaning about it being insufficiently flat. :rofl:

I’m watching one now that has been at it for close to 8 hours

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Seems a bit of a recent bug the bots being released into the free world rather than stopping when the event ends.

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I did a “Just Watch” this morning and was tagged onto the A HillClimbIntro bot as well.

Two in tight formation blasted past me earlier today.

I resisted the temptation to try to latch on …

The A bot is way too powerful on the hills. Doing 4.6w/kg up the epic KOM and across the bridge leads to everyone else having to smash 5.5-6.0w/kg in order to not be dropped by this 75kg 345w bot.

It’s not a good experience. The A bot should be 65kg and with lower maximum power.

I’m sure Mr or Mrs Dot will obliterate these 13.3w bots quite easily, like the lady lady week destroyed BigMig and then proceeded to demolish Constance group. Even the triangle of shame didn’t stop her.

Zwift made all the bots the same weight so shifts between RoboPacers would be somewhat consistent (with dynamic pacing it’s not that consistent between hills and flats, but it is what it is). If they for some reason chose to drop the weight of the A bot but not the others, than the gap between B and A would be large for anyone above average weight. Then on the flats the A-bot would be pretty easy for someone who pushes a lot of base power, but isn’t light, but on the hills it would be a huge power shift for them.

So, I don’t see why it would make sense for them to specifically change the weight of the A bot.

Then come and join the Constance group for 60-100km on the Sugar Cookie route and see for yourself.

It is way too fast up steep hills. Everyone ends up getting dropped or smashes huge watts/kg to try to stay with the bot.

The current state might be fine for the coco grade group but it’s not okay for Constance where the maximum power increase is far too high.

Is it really realistic that a 75kg Constance bot would do 315w-345w all the way up ADZ if it was on there? And would you do that normal pace yourself?

I didn’t see any grumbles about Amelia Anquetil back in the old days when it was 65kg and 4.2w/kg.

are you saying to keep up with a bot 10kg heavier you have to do 1 w/kg more?

while i agree you will have to put out more power from my experience i’d expect it to be marginal maybe 0.1 or 0.2 more than the bot.

Easier solution if people can’t keep up with bots is go with an easier group and if that’s too easy on flats just sit on the front more.

I’m saying you need to come and ride with Constance for 60-100km today and see for yourself on the steepest parts of the course.

Will you do so?

It’s easy to make assumptions but better to actually see for yourself.

Not sure i could ride with constance for 1k on the flat so that’s a no. But i should be able to fanview somebody going up a climb to figure out power they are doing.

How does distance make a difference? Sure if you joined the bot for the full lap you are going to get fatigued but bots are designed to be joined any time so can’t account for how long you ride with them to slow down.

And if you are concerned by fatigue and it’s hilly choose an easier bot so you have something in the tank for the hills seems like the most obvious solution…but maybe that is what you are asking for bring back an easier bot who is next lowest than Constance in w/kg.

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That’s why I asked you to join so you could get some experience first.

I’m not the only one who has been complaining that the increase in pace is too high for the A bot when it does 4.6w/kg. But we folk just ride big distances with Constance, so surely we wouldn’t know…

We should just go ride with Genie or Jacques and upset the folks there because we are pulling those groups along faster and then they complain (which I’ve seen in the chat when that occurs).

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In my timezone almost nobody was ever riding with Anquetil, so I don’t think there were that many folks to grumble. This was also before dynamic pacing which means 20% more power on the hills which of course is a lot, but that’s consistent with the other bots, so not specific to the A bots.

I agree that the power increase for these bots at 20% on hills is huge, this would be compounded further if they were lighter because on hills they would not only go 20% harder, but they are light, so if someone following them could keep up on flat but was much heavier than them, then it would be a much bigger power swing on the hills for those folks who are heavier and now have to put out the same w/kg as the A bot.

I actually think the 20% higher push on hills should be capped at a certain number of seconds (then go back down to the normal power) which would equate to punchy climbs still feeling punchy in the group but then it would settle back so people wouldn’t need to sustain 20% additional power for such long periods on climbs.

But, it doesn’t seem there is any reason it would make sense to change the way the A bot works specifically, the above is an issue with all bots and dynamic pacing on hills.

I can absolutely do some testing with constance, but I already can calculate what I expect to do based on constance’s weight/power, and my understanding of dynamic pacing and drafting. What part of constance do you think is not working as expected from a power perspective?

Let’s say Constance was on Accelerate to Elevate and spent most of the flat and rolling sections between 315-345w and then hits Alpe and does the remaining 45-50 minutes of the climb at 345w (or 4.6w/kg).

Doesn’t that seem unrealistic to you? Maybe you are that fit that you can just hold 4.2w/kg for over an hour then punch it to 4.6w/kg for almost another hour or longer (if the climb was even longer).

The little punch for a short hill might be fine but it’s wrong for much longer climbs.

If you want to do some human powered testing feel free to do so.