I think that there should be the option to select the Gay Pride flag rather than your country flag. Cant see as this would have any detrimental effect on any other feature so why not ? Its a positive step forward for LGBTQIA+ riders
If such a feature were introduced, Iâd like to see a range of alternatives. The rainbow flag, but also some of the more prominent others; trans pride flag, bisexual, non binary, progress flag/intersex-inclusive progress for example.
And what about a flag for a white straight heterosexual (male/female)
Why do you need to proclaim your whiteness? The purpose of these flags is to call attention to segments of the population that get overlooked. White straight people fall into that category? (This is like âAll Lives Matterâ flagsâŚcompletely missing the point.)
Its a flag system designed to denote nations, not sexuality. If I ask you where you are from, youâre not going to tell me âGayâ.
By all means live your life and rock on, but not EVERYTHING needs to be a channel for expression, this makes little sense.
Antarctica is an option, so itâs not about nations. And itâs only a system to denote âwhere youâre fromâ if they want to keep it that way. Itâs not an integral/necessary part of Zwift, and if they wanted to change it, they could.
Antarctica isnt a nation/country, for one. Its absolutely a âwhere do you hail fromâ system that is used in tons of sports, not just Zwift. It is not a bumper sticker, which is why the system doesnt need this.
Yes, thatâs what I said (to be clear, you said it was about nations, I was making the small point that it is not about ânationsâ, as Antarctica is included). And yes, it is a âwhere youâre fromâ system. It does not have to be only that, if Zwift doesnât want it to be. Thereâs no international law that Zwift is abiding by. If you donât want it to change, thatâs fine. But the counter-argument here is purely âtradition!â
Edit: If it was viewed as a method of stating identityâof which âwhere youâre fromâ is a partâsome people might find other statuses to be more important to their identity than where they are from. Itâs not used that way now, but it could be, and thereâs no need to know where anyone is from when looking at their name on the list.
I dont think its tradition to use a system for what its designed for. I get that yes, it could be changed. I could have a flag showing my feelings on a variety of things.
But are we going to arbitrarily dismantle stuff that serves a very specific purpose for reasons no better than âYes its designed this way, but we could shoehorn something inâ because it can be done?
If thereâs no specific argument for continuing to use it that way other than âthatâs how weâve been using itâ, then itâs absolutely just âtraditionâ.
âFeelingsâ is not what âidentityâ is about. Someone who proudly flies the flag of their nation is not just âexpressing feelingsâ. Someone who tells you their religious denomination, or marital status, is not just âexpressing feelingsâ.
Again, the purpose of these kinds of flags (pride and etc) is to call attention in a public space to a part of oneâs identity that you feel is disparaged, denigrated, etc. In some parts of the world it can be very dangerous to express these identities. So these flags exist to help people feel like their identity in the world is as important as anyone elseâs. Itâs not about âfeelingsâ.
And again, itâs fine if you donât want the change, to be clear. Iâm not rage-typing or anything. Just expressing that the system could change if Zwift wanted it to, because thereâs no real use for the âwhere youâre fromâ flags. (And tons of people picking Antarctica who are not from there illustrates my point).
As an addendumâthe Ukraine flag is widely used here to express someoneâs âfeelingsâ.
But I mean if you watch cycling/sports, the flag next to name is very common? This is a thing. Zwift didnt imagine it, I didnt imagine it, its a common thing in sports where the athlete has his country of origin next to his name. Youre talking like this isnt a well established system that people are used to in a variety of contexts.
What youre talking about is throwing that out and replacing it with something different - Cool, I think if enough people agree then it should happen. Flags out, expressive images in, but that also has its pitfalls (lots of hateful people out there)
ALL OF THAT SAID, no, I dont agree that it makes any sense to change the flag system to include bumper sticker stuff. Its no longer a flag system then, and I dont think its unreasonable to point out the very basics of this issue.
Not at all. Iâm treating it like a tradition. A tradition which seems to have no use here on Zwift (it has a use in the Olympics). If thereâs an argument for why itâs useful on Zwift to keep the system the same, Iâd be interested to hear it.
That a system has been around for a long time is itself no reason to keep it. (Although thatâs a belief that people of different political persuasions actually differ on.) Plenty of useless, and even bad, systems have been around for a long time.
My claim is simply this: there would be some benefit to changing the system, if Zwift wanted to. There seems to be no need for the system to be the way it is here on Zwift, other than âthatâs the way it is.â
And again, this isnât just about âexpressing emotionsââI canât stress that enough. The things we identify ourselves with in life are much more than just âexpressions of feelingsâ. I like key lime pieâI donât identify as a âkey lime pie enjoyerâ. If we met, and you asked me to tell you about myself, I would talk about the things I identify myself with. Those things that are central to âwho I amâ. Nationality, religion, things like marriage, maybe sexualityâcore parts of our beings. Not just âfeelingsâ.
And itâs no real stretch to disallow hateful things. Zwift does that now (to some extent). Thatâs absolutely a concern, though.
It is a âlocationâ flag system now. But that flag system is not serving an important role in Zwift. So it would not have to be a location flag system going forward.
Edit: Thanks for a civil discussion here, much appreciated
I mean Im a liberal atheist, there is no part of me that isnt in support of people identifying in ways that fulfills their lives. Call it feeling/identifying/knowing, at the end of the day, Im going to refer to it as bumper sticker stuff. I could have a Navy Veteran flag or a Navy veteran bumper sticker.
My issue is purely with shoehorning things in. It does the original system and the shoehorned thing a disservice, it dilutes both. Like I said, if Zwift populace at large wants to just have a custom image next to their names (thats all we are discussing, in the end) as opposed to a country flag, then they should vote that in.
However, Im saying as a designer, if Im trying to have a sport aesthetic to my online platform (especially one with actual racing sentiments) then the original flag system not only makes the most sense but it provides the path of least resistance. You and I are totally cool with pride flags, others wouldnt be. (Me having a Satanic Temple flag/anti religion flag would be ideal, but would cause grief that frankly I dont want to deal with on an internet pretend-biking game)
The least resistance point is a good oneâZwift would be planting a flag (literally and figuratively) in a place where they might end up losing business. That would have to be part of their decision-making to be sure. And knowing Zwiftâwho have happily verified the user identity of an infamous torturer in the pastâthey wouldnât want to take that stance. Although theyâll take stances in some waysâTdF Femmes, Pride Month, etc. So maybe I shouldnât be so quick to condemn.
Thatâs not about the usefulness of a location flag in-game, but itâs a reason Zwift might not do this.
It wouldnât have to be a slippery slope, which is what I think youâre partially worried aboutâbecause of the difference between identity and feelings. The things we take on as identity are a different kind of thing than just things that make us feel good. If I told the local guys who have 10 foot US flags flying out of the beds of their trucks that their identifying as âAmericansâ was the same as my enjoyment of a given TV show, I think theyâd object. Similarly, someoneâs sexuality means more to them than does their feelings about wearing shirts of certain colors. If Zwift wanted to let these flags represent pieces of identity, there would be clear limits that could be drawn.
That said, military veteran status would be a great candidate for this. There are people riding around from the USMES, declaring that proudly. Thatâs more important by my lights than someone being able to laughingly pick Antarctica from a list.
The location flags donât benefit me in my riding, and I donât know that they benefit anyone else.
I get what youâre saying thoughâZwift would definitely be taking a stance, and that stance would affect their business. In the current political climateâŚquite possibly it would be an overall negative. Those are the decisions businesses have to face. Express beliefs of the people who make up the business, or âplay it safeâ.
Iâd vote against this.
In chess.com, players can put an emoji next to their names. This could be a pride flag or whatever they want. I think this is a better solution for this, in addition to rather than replacing national flags.
Adjectives lie at the heart of discrimination and division, they impose judgment and categorization based on subjective traits. By relying on nouns instead, human being from planet earth, we focus on shared identities and commonalities, stripping away the labels that create separation, just sayingâŚ
Itâs not even just that. Iâve seen plenty of people riding under Ukraine or Palestine flags who arenât from those places, and plenty rode with a French flag after the Charlie Hebdo attack. Itâs already used as a âpoliticalâ tool, so adding a Pride flag isnât much of a stretch at all. (For clarity, Iâm not saying this is political, although of course some will see it as that.)
Iâm not that convinced is does make the most sense. I think displaying nationality can cause as much division and upset as it does community. Weâve seen people spouting off saying people shouldnât be allowed to ride under a Russian flag for example, and I must admit to viewing certain flags negatively, and by extension the people displaying them.
Can I have the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Rolling Anarchy?
Exactly! The flag is primarily a representation of someoneâs geographical location, and I actually enjoy knowing that Iâm training alongside people from all over the world, regardless of their sexual orientation! However, expanding the platform to allow broader forms of self-expression could lead to a slippery slope. Now, someone might argue for displaying a swastika under the guise of self-expression protected by the First Amendment (crazy, right?). Letâs keep the focus on cycling and what brings us together!
As noted, national flags donât necessarily do that.