Gay pride flag

I think that there should be the option to select the Gay Pride flag rather than your country flag. Cant see as this would have any detrimental effect on any other feature so why not ? Its a positive step forward for LGBTQIA+ riders

If such a feature were introduced, I’d like to see a range of alternatives. The rainbow flag, but also some of the more prominent others; trans pride flag, bisexual, non binary, progress flag/intersex-inclusive progress for example. :ride_on:

And what about a flag for a white straight heterosexual (male/female)

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Why do you need to proclaim your whiteness? The purpose of these flags is to call attention to segments of the population that get overlooked. White straight people fall into that category? (This is like ‘All Lives Matter’ flags…completely missing the point.)

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Its a flag system designed to denote nations, not sexuality. If I ask you where you are from, you’re not going to tell me “Gay”.

By all means live your life and rock on, but not EVERYTHING needs to be a channel for expression, this makes little sense.

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Antarctica is an option, so it’s not about nations. And it’s only a system to denote ‘where you’re from’ if they want to keep it that way. It’s not an integral/necessary part of Zwift, and if they wanted to change it, they could.

Antarctica isnt a nation/country, for one. Its absolutely a “where do you hail from” system that is used in tons of sports, not just Zwift. It is not a bumper sticker, which is why the system doesnt need this.

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Yes, that’s what I said (to be clear, you said it was about nations, I was making the small point that it is not about ‘nations’, as Antarctica is included). And yes, it is a ‘where you’re from’ system. It does not have to be only that, if Zwift doesn’t want it to be. There’s no international law that Zwift is abiding by. If you don’t want it to change, that’s fine. But the counter-argument here is purely ‘tradition!’

Edit: If it was viewed as a method of stating identity–of which ‘where you’re from’ is a part–some people might find other statuses to be more important to their identity than where they are from. It’s not used that way now, but it could be, and there’s no need to know where anyone is from when looking at their name on the list.

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I dont think its tradition to use a system for what its designed for. I get that yes, it could be changed. I could have a flag showing my feelings on a variety of things.

But are we going to arbitrarily dismantle stuff that serves a very specific purpose for reasons no better than “Yes its designed this way, but we could shoehorn something in” because it can be done?

If there’s no specific argument for continuing to use it that way other than ‘that’s how we’ve been using it’, then it’s absolutely just ‘tradition’.

‘Feelings’ is not what ‘identity’ is about. Someone who proudly flies the flag of their nation is not just ‘expressing feelings’. Someone who tells you their religious denomination, or marital status, is not just ‘expressing feelings’.

Again, the purpose of these kinds of flags (pride and etc) is to call attention in a public space to a part of one’s identity that you feel is disparaged, denigrated, etc. In some parts of the world it can be very dangerous to express these identities. So these flags exist to help people feel like their identity in the world is as important as anyone else’s. It’s not about ‘feelings’.

And again, it’s fine if you don’t want the change, to be clear. I’m not rage-typing or anything. Just expressing that the system could change if Zwift wanted it to, because there’s no real use for the ‘where you’re from’ flags. (And tons of people picking Antarctica who are not from there illustrates my point).

As an addendum–the Ukraine flag is widely used here to express someone’s ‘feelings’.

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But I mean if you watch cycling/sports, the flag next to name is very common? This is a thing. Zwift didnt imagine it, I didnt imagine it, its a common thing in sports where the athlete has his country of origin next to his name. Youre talking like this isnt a well established system that people are used to in a variety of contexts.

What youre talking about is throwing that out and replacing it with something different - Cool, I think if enough people agree then it should happen. Flags out, expressive images in, but that also has its pitfalls (lots of hateful people out there)

ALL OF THAT SAID, no, I dont agree that it makes any sense to change the flag system to include bumper sticker stuff. Its no longer a flag system then, and I dont think its unreasonable to point out the very basics of this issue.

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Not at all. I’m treating it like a tradition. A tradition which seems to have no use here on Zwift (it has a use in the Olympics). If there’s an argument for why it’s useful on Zwift to keep the system the same, I’d be interested to hear it.

That a system has been around for a long time is itself no reason to keep it. (Although that’s a belief that people of different political persuasions actually differ on.) Plenty of useless, and even bad, systems have been around for a long time. :slight_smile:

My claim is simply this: there would be some benefit to changing the system, if Zwift wanted to. There seems to be no need for the system to be the way it is here on Zwift, other than ‘that’s the way it is.’

And again, this isn’t just about ‘expressing emotions’–I can’t stress that enough. The things we identify ourselves with in life are much more than just ‘expressions of feelings’. I like key lime pie–I don’t identify as a ‘key lime pie enjoyer’. If we met, and you asked me to tell you about myself, I would talk about the things I identify myself with. Those things that are central to ‘who I am’. Nationality, religion, things like marriage, maybe sexuality–core parts of our beings. Not just ‘feelings’.

And it’s no real stretch to disallow hateful things. Zwift does that now (to some extent). That’s absolutely a concern, though.

It is a ‘location’ flag system now. But that flag system is not serving an important role in Zwift. So it would not have to be a location flag system going forward.

Edit: Thanks for a civil discussion here, much appreciated :slight_smile:

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I mean Im a liberal atheist, there is no part of me that isnt in support of people identifying in ways that fulfills their lives. Call it feeling/identifying/knowing, at the end of the day, Im going to refer to it as bumper sticker stuff. I could have a Navy Veteran flag or a Navy veteran bumper sticker.

My issue is purely with shoehorning things in. It does the original system and the shoehorned thing a disservice, it dilutes both. Like I said, if Zwift populace at large wants to just have a custom image next to their names (thats all we are discussing, in the end) as opposed to a country flag, then they should vote that in.

However, Im saying as a designer, if Im trying to have a sport aesthetic to my online platform (especially one with actual racing sentiments) then the original flag system not only makes the most sense but it provides the path of least resistance. You and I are totally cool with pride flags, others wouldnt be. (Me having a Satanic Temple flag/anti religion flag would be ideal, but would cause grief that frankly I dont want to deal with on an internet pretend-biking game)

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The least resistance point is a good one–Zwift would be planting a flag (literally and figuratively) in a place where they might end up losing business. That would have to be part of their decision-making to be sure. And knowing Zwift–who have happily verified the user identity of an infamous torturer in the past–they wouldn’t want to take that stance. Although they’ll take stances in some ways–TdF Femmes, Pride Month, etc. So maybe I shouldn’t be so quick to condemn.

That’s not about the usefulness of a location flag in-game, but it’s a reason Zwift might not do this.

It wouldn’t have to be a slippery slope, which is what I think you’re partially worried about–because of the difference between identity and feelings. The things we take on as identity are a different kind of thing than just things that make us feel good. If I told the local guys who have 10 foot US flags flying out of the beds of their trucks that their identifying as ‘Americans’ was the same as my enjoyment of a given TV show, I think they’d object. Similarly, someone’s sexuality means more to them than does their feelings about wearing shirts of certain colors. If Zwift wanted to let these flags represent pieces of identity, there would be clear limits that could be drawn.

That said, military veteran status would be a great candidate for this. There are people riding around from the USMES, declaring that proudly. That’s more important by my lights than someone being able to laughingly pick Antarctica from a list.

The location flags don’t benefit me in my riding, and I don’t know that they benefit anyone else.

I get what you’re saying though–Zwift would definitely be taking a stance, and that stance would affect their business. In the current political climate…quite possibly it would be an overall negative. Those are the decisions businesses have to face. Express beliefs of the people who make up the business, or ‘play it safe’.

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I’d vote against this.

In chess.com, players can put an emoji next to their names. This could be a pride flag or whatever they want. I think this is a better solution for this, in addition to rather than replacing national flags.

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Adjectives lie at the heart of discrimination and division, they impose judgment and categorization based on subjective traits. By relying on nouns instead, human being from planet earth, we focus on shared identities and commonalities, stripping away the labels that create separation, just saying…

It’s not even just that. I’ve seen plenty of people riding under Ukraine or Palestine flags who aren’t from those places, and plenty rode with a French flag after the Charlie Hebdo attack. It’s already used as a “political” tool, so adding a Pride flag isn’t much of a stretch at all. (For clarity, I’m not saying this is political, although of course some will see it as that.)

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I’m not that convinced is does make the most sense. I think displaying nationality can cause as much division and upset as it does community. We’ve seen people spouting off saying people shouldn’t be allowed to ride under a Russian flag for example, and I must admit to viewing certain flags negatively, and by extension the people displaying them.

Can I have the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Rolling Anarchy? :smiley:

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Exactly! The flag is primarily a representation of someone’s geographical location, and I actually enjoy knowing that I’m training alongside people from all over the world, regardless of their sexual orientation! However, expanding the platform to allow broader forms of self-expression could lead to a slippery slope. Now, someone might argue for displaying a swastika under the guise of self-expression protected by the First Amendment (crazy, right?). Let’s keep the focus on cycling and what brings us together!

As noted, national flags don’t necessarily do that.

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