Elite Qubo Bluetooth Connection Drops v1.0.48306 / 1.0.48093

Bluetooth Connection Drops - v1.0.48306 (macOS) & 1.0.48093 (iOS)

Issue:

  • Constant trainer dropouts (watts drop to zero before recovering)

Notes:

  • Issue consistent across iPhone & Mac versions of software.
  • v1.0.48306 MacOS / 1.0.48093 iOS
  • Previous version of Zwift had no BLE connection issues.
  • Companion app maintains connection.
  • ERG works as expected.
  • HRM maintains connection.
  • Unable to replicate issue on other software platforms/devices.

Setup:

  • Elite Qubo Digital B+
  • MacBook Pro 10.1 / MacOS 10.15.4
  • iPhone 8 (companion & app) / iOS 13.4
  • Honeywell HT900E floor fan
  • Wahoo HRM
  • Bluetooth connection

Fault Finding Steps:

  • Methodically disconnected powered devices: Fan, MacBook, etc for possible interference.
  • Moved setup further away from wall outlets.
  • Repositioned trainer, fan & MacBook wall supply connections
  • Switched Qubo trainer power supply for a spare unit.
  • Switched MacBook power supply for a spare unit.
  • Repositioned MacBook to be closer to setup (3 cm way from trainer unit)
  • Tried both Macbook & iPhone separately (with unused device turned off).
  • Removed and re-installed Zwift on Mac & iPhone.
  • Forced MacBook & iPhone to forget all bluetooth devices.
  • Disabled Bluetooth/wifi on all devices not connected to trainer.
  • Ran warm up and spin-down tests
  • Not near TV, Microwave, etc, and not in operation during tests.
  • Bluetooth headphones not in use.
  • Followed steps to resolve BLE Pairing issues after update (https://support.zwift.com/en_us/resolving-mac-ble-pairing-issues-after-an-update-HykziTnzr)

Fault Finding Result:

  • No BLE communication issues with TrainerRoad, FullGaz, RGT or Wahoo Bolt.
  • No BLE communications issues with Wahoo HRM.
  • Suspect core code to v1.0.48306 / v1.0.48093 update has caused Bluetooth communication issues for Elite Qubo Trainer.

Whilst ERG is not noticeably affected as the connection drop are too brief, it means that my training data is not reflective of the effort expended, and it takes forever to cover the same distance as the game thinks I’ve stopped pedalling every minute or so.

Happy to share any further data from Zwift, TrainerRoad etc to get this issue sorted.

Same problem with iPadOS and macOS on elite qubo digital smart b+

Similar problem with cadence on iPad: on multiple rides cadence numbers start fine then after a few minutes drops (avatar stops pedalling) and goes back up to a fixed number (64rpm).
After a few more minutes, it drops again and then goes back to 64.
Only when I pedal over 100rpm (info from trainer to Garmin device via ANT), the cadence number shown on the screen increases to get stuck at 87rpm.

I didn’t have this issue before the last update.

In Zwift issue persists,

but with Elite native App, the problem doesn’t exist: POTENZA = Power and all other values are continuous without dropping. I’m supposing a problem of Zwift with Elite trainers software.

Having looked at it closer, dropouts are constant at 10 times a minute.

I’ve now purchased an ANT+ USB dongle, and there are no connection dropouts at all on MacOS. This is a disappointing additional expense on top of the cost of my time.

The wireless module on the Qubo Digital Smart B+ trainer is dual mode (BLE & ANT+ on a single chip) further suggests there is something wrong with Zwift’s use of the Bluetooth protocol to communicate with this device.

Latest test with ANT+ (deliberate stress-testing spikes in power)

Has there been a fix for this? I get the same drop in Bluetooth and now app is n out recording rides. Neither of my recent stage 2&4 tour du watopia rides show as being done. Is Zwift fixing this issue?

Same problem with Bluetooth drop outs of cadence and power using Apple TV 4K, Viiiiva heartrate strap and Bluetooth bridge to Apple TV for Stages powermeter (broadcasts cadence and power via Bluetooth). I never had a problem with dropouts until this last update. All firmware is updated and I confirmed with both the Stages and Viiiiva apps there are no dropputs when not connected to Zwift. I’ve heard Simon Schofield complain of Bluetooth dropouts as well on his most recent Zwiftcast. Zwift needs to find out what is going on with their lame update and get this fixed!

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I improved the situation

I removed speed and cadence sensor from my bike, I turned off my iPhone BT, turn off my Garmin Forerunner.

You can see the power-graphic is not perfect but better than before.

In my opinion, Zwift is very sensible at BT signal variation than other apps. It would be nice if Zwift would manage little BT signal communication variations.

iOS devices haven’t ANT+ dongle, so only BT can be used. ANT+ can’t be a solution. BT has to work better than now!

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I totally agree. Bluetooth should work.

By purchasing and testing an ANT+ dongle along with all the diagnostic steps outlined in my first post, it strongly indicates that something is wrong with Zwift’s implementation of Bluetooth for Elite Qubo Digital B+ trainers.

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I dont think it is just with your trainer, so many others with similar experiences. Zwift and bluetooth have issues.

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I tested my Qubo Digital B+ trainers with Elite Apps: same devices (iPad or Mac) without a problem. It seems to be a Zwift problem.

Ehi Zwift, is there anybody there?

I’ve just received a response to my support ticket suggesting we try to reduce interference… I think it’s clear I’ve gone above and beyond in both troubleshooting, diagnosis, and documenting my initial post. :roll_eyes:

you are right, you are right, you are gone absolutely above.
I’m in contact with Elite support, but issue it’s clear: with Elite Apps there aren’t any problems.

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Oh, and I though it was just me…

I have used my Qubo Smart Digital B+ for some time very successfully via ANT+ and Windows PC platform. No dropouts at all (ok, 1 or 2 at the start, but I understand this is normal - never any dropouts in a ride).

Recently I made the mistake of upgrading to Apple 4k TV after reading good reviews from Zwifters.

I now have regular but inconsistent dropouts on every ride I have taken part in using Bluetooth. Trying to ride with a group is impossible. (Yes I’m the guy shooting to the front, apparently stopping pedalling, nearly getting dropped, sprinting to get back, shooting to the front… repeat for 1 hour. Yes, a new dimension to Zwift, but not fun!)

To try and diagnose the problem I can confirm:

  • My trainer works fine without dropouts with ANT+ and Windows 10 PC
  • My trainer drops out regularly with Bluetooth and Apple TV (all latest updates inc Zwift v1.0.48638)
  • My trainer drops out regularly with Bluetooth and iPhone SE (all latest updates inc Zwift v1.0.48638)
  • My trainer works fine without dropouts (using Elite MyeTrainings app) with with Bluetooth and iPhone SE

The suggestion from Zwift the ‘we’ need to reduce interference is not credible IMO. That would suggest that there is a hardware problem with either the Elite trainer or (in my case) Apple TV/iPhone. I’m new to this problem, but the OP states ‘Previous version of Zwift had no BLE connection issues’ therefore this is software.
The trainer works fine with the Elite app using the same hardware platform (iPhone) in the same location with the same ‘interference’.

It would be nice to see a response from Zwift. But possibly as we (or at least I) abandon my trainer for the summer months this will go somewhere on the backlog until more people start complaining in the winter!

C’mon Zwift, you can do better than this. That’s why we pay you each month!

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Just to highlight the point:

ANT+: zero dropouts in 76 minutes


Bluetooth: 36 dropouts in 91 minutes

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I do think that Zwift has some issues with bluetooth, maybe it is the amount of info that the game needs from the trainer and other sensors coupled with the large amount of other riders on screen, it seems like it requires more than other apps like trainer road or the manufacturer apps like Wahoo, Elite, etc… Zwift isn’t just a simple app where you watch blue interval blocks go by…

However, I also think that environment can play a major role in the amount of dropouts you experience. I recently moved some things around and found that my fan was causing dropouts with my ANT+ setup. Every time I would get warm and turn on the fan by leaning over, not getting off the bike, I would lose all my signals and the only way to get them back was to exit Zwift completely.

I moved my fan to the other side of the bike, further away from the ANT+ cable, and now I don’t have that issue. Now I can’t reach my fan from the bike without getting off, but I can live with that.

@Mike_Rowe_PBR Hmmmmn, on further investigation, I am starting to agree with you…

I have a lot of connected stuff in my house, home automation kind of stuff. So this morning I did a very quick test.

Test:

  • Connect Qubo via Bluetooth to Apple TV
  • Ride for 5 minutes in the pairing screen of Zwift observing stability

Part 1.
Conditions:

  • Switch off Philips Hue Hub
  • Switch off Tado hub

Result:

  • Stable connection for full 5 minutes

Part 2.
Conditions:

  • Switch on Philips Hue Hub
  • Switch on Tado hub

Result:

  • Connection dropped after about 3 minutes
  • Did not automatically reconnect
  • Reconnect trainer manually from pairing screen
  • Connection dropped after about 2 minutes

Part 3.
Conditions:

  • Switch off Philips Hue Hub
  • Switch off Tado hub

Result:

  • Stable connection for full 5 minutes

Part 4.
Conditions:

  • Switch on Philips Hue Hub
  • Switch off Tado hub

Result:

  • Connection dropped after about 1 minute

Conclusions

  • These were only 5 minutes tests, it is possible I have proved nothing!
  • Easy to say that my Philips Hue Hub is at fault and interfering with my Zwift set up, but I’m not having that! Because:
  • Carl_D_ICC, P_Carretta and Ned_Newlin all say the issue only started after a specific Zwift update (@Carl_D_ICC, @P_Carretta & @Ned_Newlin did you introduce any new gadgets to your environment around the same time?)
  • Philips is a highly reputable international manufacturer - the Hue Hub is fully EMC tested and has a nice little CE (and FCC and a heap of other global testing standards) marked on the back. I know this is not a cast iron guarantee that it can never interfere with any other device. But I am quite sure that if there was a problem with it, then there would be information out there given the millions of these hubs that have been sold worldwide. Can you imagine: ‘my Sonos drops out since I started using Hue’, ‘every time I switch my lights on my blinds open’. Forget it!
  • Philips Hue Hub is Zigbee, not Bluetooth - while both protocols operate at 2.4Ghz they should not interfere with each other - I have lots of BLE and Wi-Fi and Zigbee and 433Mhz devices in my house - the only thing apparently suffering from interference is Zwift
  • Remember, my Elite MyeTrainings app has a completely stable connection with the Hue Hub on
  • I’m not a software engineer, but this smells like a BLE handling issue in the Zwift code
  • I need to Zwift in the dark if I want a stable Bluetooth connection!

Lastly, @Mike_Rowe_PBR, you need to buy a fan with a remote control. Better still one that integrates with your home automation system. ‘Hey Google: Zwift fan to level 3’ :wink: :slight_smile:

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Great info, Rob! No, I haven’t introduced any new electronics into my zwift room or even into the entire home since the latest updates. I’ve even shut off my fan as a test, but that didn’t have an effect. The fan has always been in the same spot prior to my BT dropout problems.

Nope, no new electric devices introduced, and my home isn’t filled with any smart-devices or home automation. Not even a bluetooth speaker or TV.