You mean in the new strategy , because in the previous one there was . (I think you acknowledge that ) .
This might be getting to be a labored point now , but if Zwift want to be able to market for example that they are supporting cycling in a broader context that just trying to get as many other bums on turbo trainer seats paying subs , e.g. competing with products for that market , the likes of peloton etc . Clubs appear to be a vehicle for that . But of course they can ignore and just go for a social (media) type model and treat the broader cycling fraternity as unimportant , approach that is business decision . It probably reflects that I hope it concentrates more on events and club riding , rather than chat and share functionality for example. Finally just to remind I said bias ( and it is personally motivated) towards this rather than exclusivity , nothing else .
This is more a reference to the rolling out rather than the end point which should we probably agree be for all to enjoy .
I would be keen to become a beta tester and provide feedback, helping you to launch this long awaited feature.
As a background, I am fundraising money for children in need of help, with the charity club I am a board member of. We are planning to host many fundraising events also in 2021/2022 also on Zwift. So it would be amazing if we could also have our charity club represented on Zwift and host many virtual fundraising events there.
That might explain the 499 DIRT club members (assuming we also have a sighting of the common or garden Off-by-one Error).
But if Club Jarvis has more than 9k members, it can only be an artificial limit. Itās just rows in a table, so I canāt really see why it would need to be limited.* 500 is too small, thatās for sure.
* that said, club riders generate āclub XPā as they ride IIRC, so if that has any implications as far as club āpowerā goes, that would be one reason to limit numbers. Otherwise the behemoth clubs would have far too huge a benefit over a small local club.
Back again to hopefully provide some insight into learning from clubs past (HERD, DIRT, ZLDR, behemoth clubs) and limits.
Learning from Clubs Beta
We have learned that large clubs / communities like DIRT operate more like an organization and need better event tools and promotion (I like to call eTap) on the Zwift event calendar. Alternatively, there is meetups which people are outgrowing and wanting more. Between these two, there is a huge gap that we are trying to solve through clubs.
Limits: Social vs. Competition vs. Gamification
From a social perspective, we are currently thinking through a system that will allow you to participant in any club socially. At launch, you will be able to configure your club events to be available to either club members only or anyone that has an event link so you can invite the world if you would like.
Letās be honest, competition already exists in Zwift Power and through WTRL. I do not know what the future of team competition looks like although we have many ideas in mind. Speaking from someone who suffered in two bridges team race last night, WTRL has done an amazing job and have been great partners to bring competition to Zwift.
Lastly, we are thinking about future club game features such as progression/leveling system, achievements, rewards, etc. Designing a system that will support both clubs that may be as small as 20 to clubs that can be potentially 1000ās is something we have not fully thought through to make a decision on today.
This is the Beginning
Just want to reiterate that this is the beginning of the clubs journey and there is a lot that we will learn once we are live. I appreciate the continued dedication and feedback from this community.
I suspect one of the main things people would like from Clubs is that ability to be outwardly associated with that club.
That is to say not having to put ā[Club Name]ā in their profile, but to have that visible as part of the UI.
That might mean a āflagā in the same way as the national flags. The āCreate Clubā screenshot showed an ability to select two colours and an icon, so that might be the intention here. A bit like how New World shows the Company crest above players in the world (I donāt mean putting them above a rider like this, but in the Riders Nearby list).
But kit is the more obvious one.
Of course there are issues with UGC, and you might have a limited set of icons. The FPS game Diabotical has a good system for applying stickers or decals to a base skin. Itās flexible, but of course people can use it creatively to be a bit obscene.
But enabling clubs to put together something, even if itās from prefabs, that they can identify with would be huge. While the huge communities like DIRT, WSR, Team Vegan etc. get a kit, the small clubs are second class citizens in the Zwift world.
Everyone needs a better event tools and promotion, not just the big clubs that has been the issue for the last 18 months with only the big clubs getting access to tools and events leaving everyone else as second class users on the platform. It was a struggle to get an event on the calendar without jumping through hoops where as big clubs got new events whenever they asked even at busy times.
Promotion, while the big clubs and WTRL series have been a great success itās probably the opposite they now need less promotion as they have a captive market through their various social media channels. ZRL has been great but with them being the only organiser with access to tools and direct promotion to thousands of users it has come at a cost hitting numbers in other great community events.
Another vote for custom club kit would be a huge appeal for clubs as to date itās only been something available to the biggest clubs.
As Team Veganās events are currently open to everyone we work very hard at making sure we have ride leaders and backups as well as regular sweepers when we can. Iād very much like to have āopenā events accessible via a menu rather than having to be issued or request a link.
Regarding kit, Team Vegan didnāt just get given a kit when our membership reached a certain number. There was a lot of communication over several years to get it in place. Iām all for simplifying that process to allow clubs large and small to wear an in-game kit to represent their identity.
The same communication happened before we got our events onto the schedule too. Several emails asking for inclusion as well as details of how our rides would be conducted. Again, Iām happy that this process is being made easier for everyone as long as events donāt become too insular. Sharing club rides with other Zwifters from across the world is a massive part of what makes the platform so enjoyable for me.
I donāt think anyone is suggesting that public calendar events are no longer a thing - but hopefully this allows for a sort of promotion and relegation between clubs events and public calendar events to improve the overall quality for everyone.
I wasnāt trying to imply you got given it for no effort, or favouritism. It was just one of the ones that popped into my head as an example because Iāve been trying to unlock it for ages! I keep missing the unlock rides - last time, I checked on October 14th only to find Iād missed it by one day.
There are loads of other clubs/groups I could have cited, so sorry if I caused any offence.
Hi @Eddy_Lee I tried to DM but it wouldnāt allow me, I would love to get A E R O on to the early access. We have a very strong racing community as evidenced by our Zwift Academy success stories. We have some great ideas/plans but very limited by meetups functionality.
Cheers
Back againā¦ letās talk club identity in game. Before I dig into that, I want to give you all a glimpse at what I am prioritizing.
#1: Ship Clubs
At the core, this is what you all have read on press releases where you can create a club, invite members, create a club event (specifically a group ride / run) and chat.
#2: Club Discovery
Great, everyone can create a club but I canāt search for a club to join. This is next on the agenda which I am actively working on with the team.
#3: Unlock More Event Modes
First, getting the ability for clubs do to workouts together. Next, figuring out how we can get club races in place.
#4: Club Identity
There are lots of ideas around the club identity we are looking through and have some prototypes in place. Below are some ideas we are exploring:
Club kits (obvious one here!)
Club affiliation on your Zwift profile
Club representation in Zwifters nearby list
We have some challenges to overcome around tech, ability to moderate images, etc.
Version 1
My goal is to get a version 1 of the items above out so we can continue to iterate and improve these features in the future. As always, thank you all for your dedication and feedback to the Zwift community!
Iād be interested to hear you thoughts @Eddy_Lee on balancing the feature set available to all users.
Zwift over the years seem to have created a tiered environment for their users, the haveās & have nots if you willā¦
There are clubs currently who zwift support with the current clubs solution, private events (either race or group ride) whilst others have none of this availableā¦
We are all paying customers, we all pay the same price but this tiered offering remains.
How do you quickly address this? As, if they are available now for many, why not for allā¦your road map above suggests things wonāt balance for a good while.
It would be fantastic to have the club functionality with my clubs. Itās getting to that time of year again that Iāll be spending more time on the trainer than training outdoors.
Itās always been difficult for me to have organised rides for my club members, as itās a junior club with riders from ages 6-16. They really want to race against other junior riders, so to have this functionality would be incredible. It really would be something to have CycleStars as the first junior club on Zwift and allow us to grow the online club as well as IRL.