Anti sandbagging and other areas that need development and communication

what if they don’t care and will just pocket your monthly subscription fee?

oddly enough, we are saying the same thing… but you are the optimistic type, I am not.

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Why can’t zwift cross reference the zwiftpower final results and use these in the zwift race results, I race D grade and I normally finish in the top 10 in zwiftpower in the correct wpk. But zwift always has many riders in front of me that are clear c and b rider performance. Zwift event results should only display the official zwiftpower results.

Even if they added none zwiftpower riders to finishing positions after the official results, this would stop sandbagged taking the win

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If they listed the non-official rider results in a random order, that would give an even better incentive to race in the right category.

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One thing I will say, is that RGT’s public metrics are really starting to build momentum and once they hit a certain level that will only compound. It’s still has improvement areas, but things like what you see on screen is what everyone sees, drafting in terms of physics and data feedback on screen, creating your own events, magic roads now with its choice of 2 scenery styles, theres a lot of really good stuff coming out of such a small group of people. Plus their community is a really nice place to be and RGT talk to them very frequently.

I’m saying that in that Zwift can’t be standing still surely? they must have RGT on their radar now, albeit still at some distance.

I think this post is a good set of questions to ask @Mark_Cote , @xflintx , @shooj or anyone at Zwift for a bit of feedback, even if it was ‘I’ll get a status update and come back to you’, but with a void comes speculation and frustration. It’s the simple things!

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Agreed Garry. Just getting acknowledgement at the very least on a few of those items would be a start.
I’ve been hearing really positive things about RGT from an actual riding experience point of view, as well as the PR / comms side. I was planning on giving it a go start of 2021, but didn’t get round to it yet. It’s that critical mass that Zwift has that keeps me there - basically I like racing against lots of folk, especially if there are a few friends / team mates there. As the numbers increase on RGT, it becomes more and more attractive.

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The guy I complained about was on my herd 45min D ride today (flat course fan flats)for all catorgorys his name popped up behind me while riding and seems to have had a feast of pizza and beer overnight his weight gone back up again from 60kg yesterday to 75kg today surprised he felt like riding with that heavy increased load spect he will be on a diet overnight back down to 60kg tomorrow if it’s hilly lol not racing anymore did this ride to get the kit no point racing on zwift with this amount of rubbish going on just stick to group rides this was fun today

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I’ve put off trying RGT properly, on the basis that I am desperate to be proven wrong by Zwift every month. I keep telling myself - it will be next month. The last 12 months will all make sense… but then - nothing. And no comms to help alleviate the fears. Instead I see threads like the one about the ability to pick red in the colour picker, and it makes me want to gouge my eyes out, which isn’t going to help with the Zwift or RGT experience.

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The draft feedback on RGT is fantastic. I love how they’ve implemented it (although the contrast could be higher).

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I’ve now reset my expectations to not expect anything substantial until the next ‘Zwift season’ when autumn hits again.
Hopefully we might see Zwift 2.0 or at the very least some of the items above given some attention then.
If not and we just get Boost mode 2.0, a few new helmets and a redder red, I’ll maybe make the jump to RGT if the numbers keep improving.
I’ll keep bumping this until I get some sort of response though. Like Andy Dufresne hahaha.

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Maybe I’m completely naive here but as near as I can tell, if they just limited participation in races to in category riders we’d take care of the vast majority of sandbaggers. I saw this in the Haute Route events when I posted messages in the pen that sandbaggers would be DQ’d and it apparently got a lot of them out of the C cat rides. I know I didn’t end up gaining 50 spots between on the road finishing position and ZP position. And the starts while hard weren’t the absolute on the rivet efforts I see when there are A’s and B’s infiltrating the C cat races. The starts that are beyond category and the delta between OTR and ZP finishing position is happening in the Cape Epic races again because they aren’t DQing the sandbaggers from the start.

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It’s still early days for RGT and the masses are certainly not there yet, but at least it feels like things are moving forward and I don’t feel like a living bug database using it…

Yep this would make a huge difference.

If limiting down category entry is too hard for Zwift, DQing and not giving race credit should do the trick. Let everybody know in the race notes, put a warning message in the start pen and enforce it!

I know the percentage of Zwifters that come here on the forum is probably less than 1% of the entire subscription population but when the sandbaggers posted in the problems with Haute Route about getting DQ’d after the event that seemed to have an impact on the number of miscreants in the C and D fields. It was pretty frickin’ sweet…

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Well, these are all good questions. These are the ones that make you sit back and go, “yeah… you’re right.” and exhale while mulling it over.

These are the heavy hitters.

Right now, I can tell you that this is all being discussed, and I have no more insight into that at the moment. More than anything, I would love to say to you all “yes, this is coming” or “no, that’s being reworked because of the following reasons.”

The simplest way to answer you is that we are aware of ways we can improve the game that align with what you’re addressing here, and there is nothing concrete enough to present to you, though some balls are rolling more quickly than others.

It’s not substantial, I’ll give you that, but it’s the most current answer.

Great points and thanks for your feedback!

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I view the presence of a reply here as an improvement to the normal course of events and that’s kind of sad. Of course, the very slim percentage of Zwifters on this forum may contribute to ZwiftHQ’s dismissive attitude to the concerns raised here. I would hope they could ignore the small numbers and scale these issues to the Zwift community as a whole.

Thank you Flint for at least giving us hope for the future. I can tell you I look forward to the day when I can look at a start list in Zwiftpower and there is no need for an Riders Out of Category button. My legs will thank you too…

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So @xflintx as your in a chatty mood, if the things discussed here are not on the road map or in a position where they could be hinted at, what is being worked on currently (and for the last 12 months) that has taken priority over these things?

Open floor, tell us as much or as little as you can…
but it would interesting to see where all that resource is going as from the end user perspective, there’s seems little to improve or enhance this experience in the past 12months.

I’d also suggest you take a look at at Nates recent post on the TR forum and review how he interacts with their community, TR faces the exact challenges that zwift does, but they seem a whole lot more open, honest and approachable than many of the zwift team.

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@Lee_H @Mark_Crane_TOG_G_63y

For what it’s worth, I don’t personally view the Zwift racing community and ZwiftPower users like yourselves as anything to balk at. A lot of you have been since the beginning as well, and that needs recognition; you know the game back to front and always take the time to let us know how we can make it a better experience. I’d also like to say that week in and week out I am personally pushing for more transparent communication.

I’m with you.

When I say that, I mean it; I empathize with the problems Zwift poses from a user standpoint. I’m constantly asking folks why something is one way, or how it can be retooled, etc. I’m on ZwiftPower just as much as you all, and while I’m not riding at the moment, the frustrations when something goes sideways hit me too.

There are times when I don’t respond because I’m not in the right frame of mind to contribute what I feel is conducive to good conversation or I can’t formulate a reply I would like to see from Zwift were I in your shoes. There are also times when you all as a community are pretty much bang on the money with your feedback, your inference, and your suggestions when it comes to what’s happening. I see posts and think, “ah, yep, their feeling is spot on. I wish I could tell them.” And sometimes, frankly, I’m burnt out. I love engaging with the community, and I also can’t respond to every tag and question in the way I would like.

What I ultimately hope to convey is that when you make posts here, ask us questions, and raise your concerns, it’s getting seen.

For right now, the updates I’ve recently popped up (Haute Route GC, the March ZP update, other thread replies) are the most current updates we have in regards to ZwiftPower and Zwift racing. The conversations are being had, as I mentioned earlier, and Zwift racing isn’t being put out to pasture. Instead, we’re entering into our Rocky training montage phase with it, if you follow me.

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@xflintx
Thank you for that Flint. I know I truly appreciate your words here. I look forward to hearing about the next phase of improvement.

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While I don’t want to shoot the messenger, this is an answer we could have got 2 or more years ago and it would have been just as relevant.

Similarly, acknowledgement of poor communication has come from Eric himself in Zwiftcast interviews etc. several times. A lot of frustration stems from the reality that even after shortcomings are acknowledged, little if anything seems to change. Not always, and over the years there has been plenty that has been added or changed in response to community feedback. Heck, we didn’t even have start pens or in-game results 5 years ago.

Sure, behind the scenes there might be a lot going on, but since it’s completely opaque to us we only have our frustration to vent.

I appreciate it’s not your fault, nor is there likely much you can personally do about it; and I appreciate your willingness to stick your head above the parapet.

Maybe with Mark Cote coming in things will change to be less frustrating. He certainly said some encouraging things in a recent Zwiftcast, as I recall. As some have said before, even some sort of roadmap would be good. (Although that said we’ve been told several times by Eric that certain features are imminent, only for them not to appear within a year, if then, so maybe not… :smiley: )

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Hey @xflintx , feel for you , your input here I trust most if not all of us fully appreciate and understand what you are saying .

In Septemeber when the latest funding was agreed one would think there was something going to happen. it must have been on the basis of some sort of roadmap and strategy :upside_down_face:, but then again having been through so many of those recently that didnt appear to have either why would we expect it to be any different here . Its amazing what some people can cook up from a feedback survey and some numbers pulled with no basis in reality but they dont care as they dont really have real world domain knowledge . Not really worked out why VC continues to operate and thrive so dysfunctional these days in the face of that but there it is. How many of us have to deal with that day in day out !

We can just hope that the The Marketing team and the Vanity project team trying to work how to bring us a Zwift Bike have not already spent all the 450million by now.and you can get a properly funded and resourced team to do some REAL work to make REAL improvements for REAL customers…

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