Anti sandbagging and other areas that need development and communication

Just implementing the Auto-assign race categories would make a HUGE difference! And IMHO, it would be much easier and quicker than the matchmaking or any other system (which would make huger difference but take way longer to implement). Take a look at just about any start list for a C cat race in Zwiftpower and you’ll see a major number of riders out of category. If they weren’t allowed to start then we’d get to have races that aren’t blown up by the sandbagging bullies riding down cat.

The Haute Route events had a post event DQ for down cat riders and I posted a warning in the start pens of the rides I did letting them know there was a possibility they would be DQ’d and not given credit for the event. It seemed to make a difference as the starts weren’t as on the rivet as usual. I’d love to do races on a regular basis where I’m not railing at my 5 minute max at the start and can go out in a more rational manner, whatever that is…


I caught Eric Min sandbagging (lol) and this was his response. Doesn’t sound like they have done any work on it if it has been considered at all.|230x500



Speaking of ZHQ recovery racers…

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Chess uses the Elo Rating System to match players together. Well documented on Wikipedia.

iRacing (car racing, otherwise similar to Zwift), modified the Elo Rating into iRating to account for a field of multiple drivers rather than 2 players. iRating is a trailing average of recent finishing positions, including DNF, DNS, and DQ results (did-not-finish, did-not-start, and disqualified).

At the start of an event, the server determines the number of splits based on the number of registrations, and assigns racers to an appropriate split based on iRating.


There’s a post a few below this, where someone has asked to remove a race from ZP where they have performed to well and are close to getting upgraded…

No response from zwift… @shooj shouldn’t you be educating the user rather than ignoring the blatant post about sandbagging?

It then appears the user has taken it upon himself to increase his weight so he can continue to win C races and not upgrade to B based on no one offering to remove the race.


@Lee @Shooj The modified Elo Rating system used by iRacing catches this behavior. If a rider persistently finishes well, their Elo rating improves and they are bumped up.

Driver’s measure themselves against others by their Elo Rating (“iRating” / IR), and do anything and everything they can to increase it, which means finishing well, and avoiding DNFs, DNSs, DQs, and sand-bagging.

At the start of an event, the server can then assign riders to splits based on their Elo rating.


I agree with you.
We have to remember, we now only see 1/2 the conversation.
ZHQ now handles this off line in personal emails.
I hope they did exactly as you suggest.
In the past, the on line community gave public re education.
Many onlookers would want to avoid a similar situation and follow rules.
Peer pressure is not necessarily a bad thing.


I am curious, why do you think that Zwift cares about such matters?

  1. If they cared wouldn’t they have resolved it? I am fairly certain that they are aware of this issue and have the necessary data and technological skills to address it.

  2. Doing nothing for this long indicates that the issue is not viewed as substantial enough to take action.


Michael, I hope that it is not as you say but I see little evidence to refute your statements.:slightly_frowning_face:


Well one reason is that they seem very invested in e-racing and they want to position Zwift as the main (only?) platform for it.
It surely undermines the credibility of it when there are no controls around the categories and sandbaggers are left to do what they want.


no, they are only concerned about eRacing for the pros and UCI

so what if some Cat C cheats? it doesn’t affect anything


They are investing money to make it seem like that but like you say with no credibility ( and this is only 1 issue being exposed at the moment) the competition which is out there is going to gain traction.

Its going to be interesting to see what happens post covid and lockdowns and the initial shiny first wave breaks and users and organisations , if they are still interested , want to see more substance how this will play out .

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Would it be possible to get some sort of response on any of these discussion points @Mark_Cote, @xflintx, @shooj next week? Even if it’s to just confirm that they are or aren’t being worked on would be appreciated. Thanks.


Other than releasing 3 hardware products (see DC Rainmaker), software development seems to have come to a stand still.

My guess/hope is that they are waiting for the Zwift off season/COVID restriction lift at which point they will flood us with output from dev work :rofl::rofl:

Either that or they are rebuilding Zwift from scratch with a new release next year alongside their new hardware.



Well, if the creator sandbags…

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Yes this is my optimistic / naive hope Garry!

Jon Mayfield, not Eric, is the original creator of Zwift.

One can be pedantic about semantics or pedantic about another deliberately missing the point… swings and roundabouts I suppose.

This, although release date anybody’s guess. Timing it for the end of the outdoor season in the Northern Hemisphere would make a lot of sense though, trying to draw people back to Zwift as the pandemic begins to recede in the rearview mirror.