You mean where 20% could do 4.5/300+ for 20mins but didn’t bother to, then it was a sprint decided by who had the silliest slope setting on their power meter?
Both systems are broken. The key will be zwift’s ability to quickly tweak and evolve to reduce outliers.
Well, I can (usually) hold the wheels of the 5 w/kg guys and my race score is 180 lower than yours.
Which makes no sense.
I mean this summer Zwift told me I’m too strong for B and moved me to A. (It then moved me to B when my 1min power went up by 20%, then moved me back to A when I breached 400w for 5 mins. But yeah, Zwift reducing your FTP when your 5m and 1m power increases is another topic of silliness. Power isn’t a finite resource that you can only reallocate from one zone to another)
Meanwhile, you are a solid B, but apparently a stronger ‘racer’ than me. Which you are, of course, if a race is 30s in duration.
5m power and ‘not losing points for finishing faster, higher level races’ would be a start.
If you’re finishing halfway down the list in a busy 700-1000 race with numerous A+ and esports pros in the bunch, with a solid 4+ w/kg average, you shouldn’t lose more points than a rider with big 30s power gains for getting top five in a 520-690 race, with a 3.3 average w/kg, which only 24 riders contested. Or something.
I wasn’t trying to say I’m a better racer by any means. I’m agreeing with the remark that there’s too much of an emphasis on the finish line score.
B cat never felt like guys were holding back all race and then went for the sprint. I’ve never been able to hold 5 w/kg for 20, 4,2-ish max. And I think that goes for many of the B’s. But I can squeeze out a decent sprint after giving my all during the race.
Now I ride against top ZRS who, in my experience have a way higher 15 & 20 min tempo
Point movement aside, your power curve is definitely an outlier.
Generic guides suggest 30 seconds of power will be around 150% to 250% of FTP depending on the technique, muscle makeup, pain threshold, and anaerobic ability. Your 30sec power is ranging between 140% and 150%.
Your pedaling style probably impacts these numbers and ranges.
A with 490 according to companion app. But I don’t do virtual racing, never have, never will.
280w FTP at 59kg but maximum power barely 550w because of the permanent results from my crash in 2022. I only care about outdoor riding and improving that.
This I agree with. If you’ve improved your 5min power to 400w (I used to be 390w for that) then your FTP is also going up in most cases. Maybe not by too much, but it should be increasing and not going down.
In various thread very good arguments have been made on what is wrong with ZRS. These are the outcomes of the weak foundation in ZRS.
It should be based on (V)ELO and the 30s should be abolished. Good sprints ergo good finishing position will lead to higher scores. No power metric needed for this. VELO ensures strength of field is taken into account sensibly.
Then there will be some other issues but at least foundation will be sound. Which it definitely is not currently.
Will any of this be taken into account? Most likely not so we will just see similar threads popping up the upcoming months.
Yeah, my 30s best in a race is 520 (6.7 w/kg / 160% FTP)
But in training it is 732 (9.44w/kg / 225% FTP)
My pedaling style in races has gone to sh*t since I switched from my bike to Zwift Ride, with the 170mm crank length. I feel I’m constantly going from 480-0 over and over again, rather than holding anything constant.
wow. you had 390w 5 minute power at 59kg. Seriously good. Almost international pro on the Coggan chart.
go head kick the C group riders , make them Pay for having good 30 Sec power and lol at them for it. @James_Cavell_Amsterd
What is the lowest possible A rider ranking? Talking about theoretical limits.
Lol. Say hello to Mr 284% 
Don’t ask me to do it again within 15 minutes or so, though. 
Yep, and it’s gone. Biggest problem now is pain prevents me doing rides much longer than 90 minutes. Outside too it’s rare I ride more than 100km for same reason. Frustrating - but at least I can ride - so I look at it that way.
Most likely is your trainer issue Kickr Core or v6 are both having problems with Virtual Shifting and resistance…while you get Free Watts 
Your 30 second power primarily depends on the maximal capacity of your glycolytic system which is reffered to as VLamax. In other words, it depends on rate at which you are able to generate lactate because creatine phosphate system is attached to lactate. Of course, there are other factors such as muscle composition or the efficiency with which you can activate muscle fibers or improve the coordination between your nervous system and muscles for achieving an optimal cadence of 125-130 rpm.
If he can produce a sprint output of 9.44 W/kg during training, it suggests that his VLamax is not exceptionally low. The likely issue may be his difficulty in rapidly transitioning to an alternative energy system while at the lactate threshold heart rate.
I believe it is hard to quantify anaerobic power with FTP since the FTP is not directly related to one single metabolic system. The range would be super wide. For me, it is sitting at 336% of FTP.
@Michael_Turbosnail that like ATP yeet into the muscle.
Adenosine triphosphate stores in the muscles will be depleted very quickly, for some people in less than two seconds. You will basically use creatine phosphate which is more stable than ATP and allows muscle cells to have about 15 seconds of energy. Once your ATP-PC stores are depleted glycolytic system takes over. This system breaks down glucose or glycogen to produce ATP, resulting in the production of lactic acid.
I have the Zwift Hub One (for resistance) and my power is recorded from Assiomo pedal power meters, so I doubt this is the issue.
Agree with everything here. The heavy weighting to 30 second power in their seed score has thrown things out of whack. If they really believe 30 sec is all that matters for winning, then the results part of the racing score should take care of that, they shouldn’t need to put so much weight on that metric in the base score and use a broader range of metrics.
Right now, racers with good 5 minute and up power don’t need to sprint in races and can keep their scores low.
Yup.
And they also haven’t really considered that some of the old C cat riders have higher 30s power than some Cat A riders…while being 1-1.5 w/kg lower on 5 and 20m power.
