42 second KOM?? Really?

(Richard Jodoin #HauteRoute_Asheville) #1

Ok so I’m not in the best shape I’d like to be at the moment. Winter up here takes its toll on a guys capacities.

But is it believable that someone would climb Col d’Zwift in 42 seconds? Really?

(Alan Hamilton - MRC) #2

I would guess yes. Based only on the fact that I’m a 57 year old rider that can’t keep up with the young cat 3s in my club anymore on climbs in the real world, but I have done that climb in 67 or 68 seconds (my 57 year old brain does not remember the exact time!) and that was not an all-out effort. And although my clubmates are strong, there’s another couple of levels above them when it comes to raw power.

(Allan Watkins) #3

Yeah, totally doable by a strong enough rider. I’ve hit it at ±54-56 seconds before a few times. I weigh about 64-65kg and can put out about 420-530 watts for a 1min power pretty consistently (repost/edited my comment, had to check the #'s), pro’s can easily do that number for 4-5 minutes so I’m pretty sure their 1min power is wayyyy higher than mine.

Also figure in the fact that the pro riders will weigh about 60kg or less and they have a crazy power to weight ratio to drive them uphill at high speed.

(Richard Jodoin #HauteRoute_Asheville) #4

True, good points guys. I hope that in the Live version of Zwift, there’ll be someway to choose which type of riders we can ride with. I’m all for having pros ride Zwift, they’ll have good feedback to provide. But I think it sucks that I’ll be practically spitting out blood to get up the 70 second mark, yet have pros do it in 42 seconds (or less) while talking on the phone or texting… :wink:

(Alan Hamilton - MRC) #5

One of the first requests I made was to ask for the ability to select a group of people for a private ride/race and Zwift indicated that was on their list of things to get done. So at some point you should be able to hand pick the people you’re riding/racing with and ensure you win every event! :slight_smile:

(Andrew Williams) #6

Nope. Thomas DeGendt’s 45 seconds represents the most believable performance I have seen, and it is right at the top of Coggan’s chart for world class pros. The other stuff, IMO, is due to a mismatch between trainer curve and wheel speed, leading to large errors in zpower.

(Richard Jodoin #HauteRoute_Asheville) #7

Haha oh my goal is not to win every event. I have realistic expectations! ;o) But to at least ride (or race) against a group of riders in our own performance level will be a nice option.

(Alan Hamilton - MRC) #8

So my guess that 42 seconds was possible by a very strong rider was only off by 3 seconds? I wish all my guesses were that close. I would still say it’s not impossible that some pro out there could produce a bit more power than TdG for about 42 seconds. But I agree that the 42 seconds under discussion was due to some calibration error or bug. (I know that my KICKR reports higher wattage than it should, so I started using Golden Cheetah to knock 10% off my power numbers after I complete the ride.)

(Alan Hamilton - MRC) #9

@ Richard: I actually prefer to ride with a group of people that are a bit stronger than me. Not getting dropped is a big motivator!

(Stewart G teamWBR) #10

I would reckon quite a lot of the guys are out by a fair bit. 39 seconds with averaging over 1000W and mid 140’s h/r.
Some might not be trying to do it deliberately but it does skew the results.
It would be good to have a link to peoples ‘bests’ like TR does and this would show up any rogue power figures. If you have a 1 minute power of around 5-600W you are not really going to be able to do a lot more up the climb here, even if you are chasing someone.

(Mark Minn HPP) #11

I probably shouldn’t care about these guys with incorrect zPower data, but it is kind of annoying.

(Scott Yarosh) #12

It seems like the top 20 on all strava leader board on zwift are incorrect Zpower or people intentionally cheating. I’m a fairly good sprinter and can put out over 1000w for 30 seconds. I can not put out over 1000w on a trainer even close for 30 seconds, it’s a completely different riding feel, when i do a 1000w+ (3seconds) sprint on the trainer it sound like the trainer + bike are just going to come apart. Not saying i can sprint anywhere near like a pro can but these watts most of these " who the f are you" guys are putting out just seems ridiculous.

They need to have a separate course for real power vs z power. The should also list the ANT+ device and zero offset # next to the rider so we know how they are getting power, and that its at a reasonable calibration. That’s if they want to have any real competition aspect to it.

Also btw make a way to zero a power meter currently you cant zero a power meter so even real power meters are off a bit

(Percy Zahl) #13

What is Col d’Zwift elevation gain? From Strava segment I find 21m.

So that pure climbing (only) power for a 65kg rider + say 7kg bike and 3kg shoes, pants, helmet… gives

(65+7+3)kg * 9.81N/kg * 21m / 42s = 368W

Now add say 100W for wind&rolling&drive train resistance – nearly in significant for a steep climb.

And it looks reasonable with some 450 … 500W to me for a more pro level rider.

But with anything beyond 1000W for over 20 seconds I am getting concerned even for the most doped pro o]

Beyond being even very scared my trainer setup flying apart… if I only could.

(Mick Neal INTENT - (C)) #14

There is an obvious discrepancy between computer controlled resistance trainers like the Kickr and people using powermeters on a standard trainer. I have to sprint at the top of hills to stay with people as we crest and my max sprint power is limited to about 2/3 of my real world max. There should be a Kickr indicator on the power icon next to rider’s names.

(Jeff Doughty PVC WBR (B)) #15

Yeah T. Parkin got a 42 second KOM while I was on. He did it at 16 w/kg for the entire thing (yeah right) also using zPower. He also had the Green Jersey at 7.65 and I was 2nd at 7.95 … It was incredibly frustrating… Definitely not legit. Not on Strava to ask any questions :slight_smile:

(Stewart G teamWBR) #16

The guy that did the kom on the 6 laps is around 8 minutes faster than anyone else and almost double the ave. watts. Around 650w for 45 minutes if I remember correctly. You can’t flag it either as it has already been done and he has said it is legit!

(Scott Yarosh) #17

Basically crap like this makes me not want to use zwift. At least not pay for it anyway once it’s out of pre alpha stages. Calling this a beta is kind of a joke too.

(Percy Zahl) #18

Screw and ignore all the in- or un- intentional wrong power riders. There are and will always be way to cheat or just get it setup wrong.

Strava segments I would totally disregard in Zwift rides either way.

I suggest to all:
Be responsible and honest with your configuration. (Obvious?)

Be happy and enjoy Zwift – ignore the flyers and make fun of them!

Do we need a “game police” to stop/flag/… riders obviously far off the charts? Or allow select members to act as such? May be the control computer can turn hi-fly-riders into transparent robots and remove from scores – hehe…

I know, this still will never fix those close to normal but just 10…20% better than actual real life settings hard to identify.

One measure could be a categorization of riders by the actual used power meter system:

  • non/trainer curve based
  • Kicker – seams to have precision issues
  • real bike (and possible best) based power (power tap, SRM, etc.)

And even further control for “races” – turn in some real world reference power curve / data (say past year).

(Mick Neal INTENT - (C)) #19

I’m going to stick to using my Kickr, I think that it gives the most realistic hill climbing experience (except for the throwing a parachute out as I crest the hills). My Strava segment rankings give me good feedback on how I’m doing and I have faith that the Zwift team will tweak things over time to get things more equalized. It is, however, pretty uncool to deny the flagging of completely unrealistic KOMs. If someone calls you on it you should have the grace to back down and accept the flag. I’m hoping that when things get out of beta there are multiple courses with fresh segments and the power issue is less of an issue.

(Mick Neal INTENT - (C)) #20

Rumor is that the type of power setup will be indicated in a future version. I like the idea of smart trainers going the other way, maybe we could alternate days :wink: