Trainer Difficulty Locked for declines

Please can TD for declines be locked for all Zwifter’s regardless of what a rider wishes to use due to gearing etc for inclines. I see no reason why the two have to be linked and should be easy to change. I prefer 100% TD but for racing this causes a serious disadvantage when it comes to rolling sections and declines. I’m 56kg if for example I’m racing with TD @ 100% against a group averaging 75kg with TD set to 25% to stay with the group on rolling / declines due to the difference in TD is extremely difficult if not impossible. I understand why TD exists but it should only relate to inclines the majority of races I loose touch with front group is not on flat or inclines but on the declines and generally when the group aren’t pushing.

I don’t see why I should have you reduce TD if I have sufficient gearing Zwift has created worlds with inclines for us to feel getting dropped on declines that’s not what TD was intended for. I’m not interested if racers are getting an advantage using a lower TD for inclines as in it’s easier on their legs / less gear changes etc only for declines which should be the same for all.

You mention you’re 56kg, and being passed by folks in the 75kg range.

Who do you think carries more momentum through rollers, you or them?

This isn’t a TD setting issue; this is a physics issue; that you can fight all you want, but you won’t win.

Welcome to being a lightweight; either pack on some power and weight, or learn how to manage rolling sections with packs; I assure you you aren’t the only lightweight person around, and I can also assure you that “everybody else” isn’t at a TD of 25%.


:joy: I mentioned rolling sections only as an example I’m well aware that heavier riders will cary more momentum which is the same IRL through those sections but them using a lower TD will also compound the issue.

I’m not asking that lightweight riders get an advantage all I requested was that all riders are on the same setting for declines as there is no technical reason why it should be different from rider to rider regardless of gearing.

You never entertained the possibility of TD getting locked for declines instead advised that I should go to the gym every night and then go for a carry out thanks for the advice.

hi brother… at our weight, that’s just how it goes. for me, i ride on a low TD now, so not a huge issue. but you can also adjust your TD ingame while riding if you’re able to bring the menu up and get to the slider quickly. its worth pointing out that zwift already maxes out at 50% TD on descents anyway, even if you have it set to 100, so they have given the problem some consideration

i appreciate that it’s crap to have to do anything like that anyway. a lot of my own headaches disappeared when i just turned it down permanently, though i get that you don’t wanna do that

I don’t think it’s an unreasonable suggestion to put Trainer Difficulty in the hands of race organizers, as they do with many other restrictions. FulGaz separates Trainer Difficulty into several different settings and it would be great to see Zwift do the same. Probably won’t happen but nothing wrong with the idea.

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by the way, as an aside… currently my zwift weight is set at 57.5… up from about 54kg about 2 years ago. descents have improved massively with those 3kgs. they were close to impossible before. have not noticed any difference anywhere else. so you might get something out of just adding a kilo to your weight. considering at our size, our race categories are reliant on raw watts on not weight, i think it would not be ethically inappropriate to do that.

Was just about to type the same thing.

There’s been discussions on TD for years but no one from Zwift have actually said why TD setting has to be for inclines and declines (I appreciate declines is halved). There has been plenty of time went into Pack Dynamics over the last few years to improve racing I’m sure TD for declines could be changed if they put their minds to it.

I’m sure plenty of others would benefit from this being changed this was one of the main reasons why Robo Partners were changed to Dynamic pacing as many were losing the group on the descents.

The effect of the pack dynamics changes were largely undone due to complaints from people who preferred how it was before. The change you propose is zero sum when it comes to racing. You benefit some riders, but many (more, in this case) others lose their advantage and don’t like it. This isn’t an argument against your proposal, just a reason why it likely won’t happen. Think about the distribution of light/medium/heavy riders and then consider how to make the most customers happy. It’s not by helping the lightweights. Kicking the spin bikes out of all races would be more fair, too. Also not happening.

The argument is not meant for lightweight riders but for all I was just giving my experience as a light rider if two 100kg riders have TD set at either end of the scale then one has an advantage on the descents if they need to bridge a gap for example.

Again the 25% TD was an example I’m not saying all racers use this but I would guess the percentage of racers using 100% TD would be very low. I know TD can be changed during an event but personally as I use ATV this is not really possible as navigating menus can be difficult. I also think this setting should be locked especially for racing once you start not because I use ATV (I can use IPad) but I don’t think it’s something that’s meant to be changed dynamically due to the terrain.

@shooj Any feedback from Zwift on this? trainer difficulty settings would have been designed when Zwift was not intended as a racing platform.

I agree with your suggestion but I’m not convinced that you’re asking for what you want.
I agree, once you start a race ALL settings should be locked and ALL starters should appear in results, even DNF.

I’m not sure how many people change TD at the top of a hill.
You may be getting passed by riders who are just heavier.
Ironically, you may be the one who would benefit from lowering TD on the hill.

Always thought it strange they halved the gradient on descending

This is ZI reason:

But Why?

Shane explains in the video that this setting was put into Zwift early on to avoid riders spinning out on descents. In order to put out watts, we need resistance to push against. But on steeper/longer descents, smart trainers would just spin out, leaving us with nothing to push against. Just like outside!

Except outside, it’s fun to coast down the hills. Indoors: not as much. We’re often looking to keep pedaling and continue our effort, and we don’t want a long descent interrupting that.

I tested the TD with inclines and declines. 100% it was felt up and down, with 50% still feel it,… But with TD at 0%, declines to flat riding were null and it actually felt harder to ride. All my riding is done at 50% currently. Maybe its different for everyone, but I understand what you are saying, people abusing the TD % to increase the downhill feel as it seems easier to pedal with TD at 100%.

As many platforms are used for Zwift changing settings in game are much easier on some than others that’s why I feel any settings that can be advantageous for racing should be locked prior to starting.

Its not so much getting passed but staying with a group I’m well aware as a light rider I would require more w/kg on the descents but having heavier riders with a lower TD than myself compounds the issue.

You’re saying that people having the trainer at 100% for downhills is an abuse, how about people that use the trainer at lower settings in order to decrease the gradient going uphills and thus make it feel easier, Is that also an abuse?

:joy: no I said earlier on I understand why Zwift let users change Trainer Difficulty for inclines as they may not have sufficient gearing to ride up steep gradients others may prefer to turn down to reduce gear changes etc which is up to them the same watts is required.

I’m only suggesting that for declines that everyone is on the same setting and changing TD only relates to inclines.

James, my response was to @Jason_J_SPM post. I completely agree with what you’re saying.

:joy: yes sorry I didn’t mean to reply to yourself.