Trainer Difficulty Locked for declines

I never said that, I mentioned that I can see where the poster is coming from, they are the ones that brought it up. That is why I run my TD settings at 50%, even stevens

I’ve been racing on Zwift for 3 years and the first couple times I read through this thread I didn’t know what y’all were talking about, but now I think I get it. I had no idea TD was auto-adjusted on declines (if that’s what is being said).

At approx 68kg, I’m probably one of the lighter riders. I ride at 100% TD because it’s a better simulation to IRL. And I believe I’m better as using my gears IRL because of it.

I think TD should be eliminated completely. It’s one of those things that exists to make Zwift more accessible to the masses.

If you’re struggling with the TD setting in any sort of CONSISTENT way, then you’re gearing is wrong. I suspect most people are riding with relatively small chainrings (because everyone hates hills, right?). You have to accept the tradeoff.

you might be able to do 8wkg down a 15% gradient on 100% td if your front chainring is 70t. not particularly difficult on any normal gearing on 0-10% td

the reason it’s an issue for the OP is because he’s also light, when you are very light you have no choice but to ride downhill. if he is riding downhill with someone on 10% td and they were to sprint away at 10+wkg, then he is out of the draft quickly and there is nothing he can do about it and if they’re also 10+kg heavier than him then he could probably just call it a day right there. i think that’s the point he is trying to make

that kind of situation could happen to anyone at any weight if they chose to use 100% td, but you get the picture

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This is all just like IRL, right? Do we want races to be like IRL, or do we want tools to make it… something else? When it comes down to it, I don’t particularly care. I just find it interesting that people want to modify the estimated/virtual IRL experience at all.

I’m on the lighter side and a climber. If I see a hill coming, I will play my strength and charge up it, partly because I know heavier/stronger riders are going to get me on the downhill. If the hill is long enough, I can put a pretty good gap on many riders.

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@S_A_Cestria_CC has hit the nail on the head I’m not looking to gain an advantage the point I’m making is there’s nothing more annoying when you bust your gut to stay with stronger riders on a long climb only to get dropped on the descent while they are recovering

I have no resistance to push against as I’m using 100% TD not saying I’m the only one but if any of the riders are heavier and using a low TD they can spin easy while I’ve to go hard with little or no chance on hanging on.

IRL I’ve descended with heavier riders in Mallorca all going FulGaz and had no issues keeping up so don’t think Zwift should be any different.

My Tarmac came with 48-35 10/36 which I never needed I changed cassette to 10-30 so I use the same virtual gearing on Kickr Bike and prefer to use 100% TD to be the same as IRL.

I’m not sure where you’ve read that TD ever has any kind of auto-adjustment, but that doesn’t sound right to me. TD is TD. Just that on descents gradient is halved before TD is applied to probably reduce it further.

This is kinda the conundrum. Most of us don’t live in the alps and have bikes geared for this. Some riders live in pancake flat areas where the largest climbs are highway overpasses. So the other way to look at it, is that TD can help emulate what your IRL conditions are.

From this comment further up the thread…

I’m not even sure what this means, exactly, but it sounds weird and unnecessary. So you could have two variables playing off each other? Seems like that could have geometric results.

So tools to make it something else. OK, but you’re adding a variable that will, by definition, change the playing field to make it unequal. Just race the course as designed without TD. TD makes a bit more sense with training and casual rides, which I’d argue is the realm it’s intended for. Eliminate it entirely for races as it’s a complicating variable that will foul things.

I’m all in for TD to be locked at 100% for races.

Stop complaining about “heavier riders”.

Every single time you post, you have slipped in the extra words “heavier riders”. I’m sure that the packs you haven’t been able to keep up with because they are using a low TD have contained riders of all kinds of weight, it not just “heavier riders” who might be using lower TD.

Yes, ignoring TD, heavier riders has an advantage of descents, just as you have an advantage on ascents. Ain’t gravity grand.

And your IRL reference has little value, since IRL things like needing to slow for bends and simple descending nerve come into play - in Zwift neither are factors as yet.

So make your pitch about it being fairer if everyone in races, races with the same TD - I actually agree totally with that. But stop saying that its “heavier riders” who are taking an unfair advantage with the lower TD, its anyone with a lower TD compared to those with a higher TD.

Apologies nothing against heavier riders and aware light riders have advantages in some areas and heavy riders in others.

I was giving examples how changing TD setting from one end of the scale to the other can make a huge difference which can be further widened depending on the riders weight no offence intended :+1:.

fine for me since i have a regular 11spd road setup, but some use MTB gearing or cyclocross gearing. though i do think that zwift hub attachment thing zwift just came out with is a cool bit of engineering

With virtual shifting is this even a thing for those that can use virtual shifting? You can change 20+ gears in a sec. That kind of eliminates TD.

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There’s no conflict.

Going up, Zwift applies TD and the result is the gradient simulated by the trainer in terms of resistance (based on your weight).

Going down, Zwift halves the gradient, then it applies TD, then the result is the gradient simulated by the trainer.

OK, so is this to control speed (result is slower due to half the gradient) or to give the rider the option for some resistance downhill?

Modifying one (non-user) variable, then introducing another (user) variable to compensate for the initial modification introduces error and will result in an uneven playing field.

I also feel this sort of odd setup opens the door - at least a little - for some to tweak their weight and/or height to suit their interests.

If you show up to a road race with short gears or an MTB 1X, you’re going to be at a disadvantage (and probably made fun of before, during, and after the event). But that’s on you. No one hands you a road bike or a device that modifies your gearing of choice. Again, these tweaks are intended to make Zwift more accessible, which is in Zwift’s interest.

Also, when I see the “it’s the same amount of watts” comment regarding TD setting, I agree. However, shifting generally requires some amount of mental focus. Plus, no matter how smooth your shifting is, there’s a momentary loss of watts. I bet some people lower TD based on this notion alone.

I mean there’s already a wide open door for people who want to mess with their weight to either lower it to make climbs easier, or raise it to keep themselves at the top of a category. I don’t think the behavior on downhills alone would cause people to massively increase their weight because they would have a hard time getting to the downhill section in the front pack at that point.

I think this is a really good question: does virtual gearing effectively remove the need for Trainer Difficulty?

I would doubt you would require any additional gearing that virtual gearing offers but others may have different opinions.