Robo Pacer Draft Question

I don’t think anything major is amiss with the Robo Pacers’ behaviour :thinking: Some changes in pack dynamics (and rider behaviour) are to be expected due to the implementation of PD4.

Most of the complaints above seem to be limited to some strange, sporadic & unexpected accelerations by the Robo Pacers where none would be expected.

I rode with Constance the day PD4 went out on tick tock with a strong group and had 210w average.

Now I’m at 229w average with a similarly string group that ends up dropped on Tempus. Average speed also much higher.

The pacer is now going much faster.

Marek above is an extremely strong rider - he will do 100km plus with the fast robo pacers.

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My bad. From that, it definitely sounds like something has changed recently.

I’m guessing the issue was similar prior to PD4 being released. But double draft exacerbates the issue and makes it clearer to see, especially with very small groups you see with Constance (which is why it wasn’t as noticeable in PD3)

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PD4 uses 1.5x draft but I saw some of these comments prior to PD4.

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Right - what I’m saying is that if a bot was getting bonus draft it was harder to spot in PD3 because the draft effect received was lower than with PD4. So PD3 maybe Constance would go to like 48 instead of 50 so it was harder to spot the random accelerations in a tiny group because the differences were smaller in speed.

PD3 was fast, but I don’t think Constance could get to 50kph at 4.2 unless the pack was large. And now the bot will hit 50kph in PD4 at random spots whereas 4.2 without draft should be closer to like 46 (at least on Tempus).

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I noticed the same “problem” with Genie this morning, 1 Hour in Tick Tock at 44Km/h AVG.
I hope that the team can fix this issue otherwise joining some pacers (Red and Green ones especially) will become difficult.
Cheers!

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I ride ALOT on zwift. I ride ALOT with the bots - mainly Coco, Yumi and Maria but occasionally with Jacques or Miguel. I am a lighter rider (52kg). PD4 was supposed to slow the big pack speed and make it easier to sit in the draft. I can confirm neither of these are happening for me! Coco triple flat loops 100 miles PD3 - 39kph c137watts, PD4 40kph c150watts. Similar differences on other bots - with 1000km a week I have a lot of data… More power required to stay in, bots travelling faster. Lots of people in the bot groups saying exactly the same thing. If this is really how it will be then it would be good if zwift could think about the impact on the lighter riders (which captures the majority of all zwift ladies) and consider some lighter and shorter bots so we are not chasing male sized bots who we are now struggling with?

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…and some of the weedier men (me included) :laughing:

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Thanks all - I hear you and we’re looking.

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To everyone, i have done my research and the Draft Savings in a Group of more than 10 riders with RoboPacers are exactly the same in PD4 as in PD3…there is no difference and you shoud be able to do the same W/kg as before and it depends on the RP Route for the week. This was reported to @James_Zwift and @DavidP

The only difference at the moment as everyone is reporting is a sudden acceleration of RoboPacers and this can be the reason for some higher W/kg values and with Steady rides there is no autobraking to slow the big group down.

This matches with my recent Jacques experience. There was probably <10 of us in the pack.

FWIW, the climbs and descents were fine pace-wise with no perceived surging.

The surging primarily occurred on the flat, and would come completely out of the blue - robopacer would surge around 6-8m ahead of those the pacer was previously near/alongside

Is the planned maintenance on 4.17 that will take down the RPs possibly related?

@James_Zwift would a video help? I rode with Constance for a while today and I’ve got a recording showing her with no other riders in front of her or even close behind her while her speed surges and Sauce shows her having a 200w draft saving.

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This is my ride today with coco. Her avg is 196 watts compared to my 203 watts and that staying in the draft. So you need to reevaluate your research.

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Your weight and height and bike setup? That will play a role in your speed in Zwift.

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You weigh 11kg more than the pacer therefore you will need more power to ride at the same pace.

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I’m 85 kg, 182 cm, use the felt AR with DT Swiss disc wheel set. One of the fastest setups in the game. I was almost matching her 2.6 w/kg for most of the ride to stay in the pack, my w/kg for this ride was 2.4 w/kg and thats with over 362 meters of climbing and going down hill. With PD3, I would easily drafted with this same ride with less power. Here is a ride from Tuesday with the B rider (Jacques) riding at avg of 3.5w/kg. This ride felt like PD3 and it shows…

How can you calculate how much raw power you need to put out on the flat to keep up with (for instance) Coco?
I am a taller (192 CM) and heavier (94kg) rider and I am trying to figure these things out, but no luck so far.

That is impossible to answer. It depend on the grade of the road and if you are in the draft or not also what bike you are riding in Zwift.

I would suggest just riding with Coco for a bit and look at your average power.