Pace partners wrong power!

I rode with D. Diesel today!

He was cycling at 1.7w/kg instead of 1.5.

Sometimes it occurs, that I am pushing 2-3w/kg and Diesel would still overtake me… how can this even be possible??

A friend of mine had the same…

In the past it was always stable at 1,5.


They have dynamic pacing now, when going up hill at or over 3% they increase power, and decrease on the downhill.

When you are being overtaken are you going much slower than the pace partner and the main blob, or are you going the same speed? Not w/kg, I’m asking about speed.

Read the thread in the Pace Partners forum about the dynamic pacing as it will likely answer your question on the wkg differences. As for being overtaken, I’m guessing the issue with being overtaken is that a group in Zwift moves much faster than an individual rider. My feeling (and others, I think) is that groups move too fast, but this is how it is at the moment. (I have been pushing over 3 wkg and not been able to catch a 1.8 wkg group that I was only a couple of seconds behind; it’s crazy.)

There is certainly a skill involved with latching onto a group that is about to pass you. If you wait until they are right on your wheel to increase power, they will surely blow right by. My experience is that you need to get up to the same speed as the blob before they pass, and start increasing power and speed well before they are on your wheel. As Nigel says, a few seconds doesn’t seem like much, but it is very hard to close that gap once they have passed.

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Well, for sure I haven’t been much slower. Usually faster, as I am over 100kg. So when I am pushing 2,5w/kg, it’s not than 250w … should be faster then as 1,5w/kg 70kg PP.

This dynamic pacing really is useless. When I ride with a PP I expect constant power…

After 1h with Diesel, I had 168w average! It was always 150 (±5w).

So obviously, something doesn’t make sense…

What in-game bike are you on? Gravel bikes are slower on tarmac but look just like road bikes, could you be on a slower bike perhaps?

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No matter which bot I’ve ridden with, if you sit in the draft, you will avg less than the advertised w/kg. UNLESS:

  • you sit on the front all or most of the time.
  • you’re on a TT bike (no draft)
  • you’re on a mtb or gravel bike which have higher drag (CdA) which requires more w/kg vs a road bike on 99% (?) of the roads in Zwift.

Dynamic pacing definitely requires more alertness to stay with the pace partner. I have to watch the gradient, and the distance to the pace partner, and try to ride the algorithm without waiting to see the effect of the pace partner’s pace adjustments. I find it’s easiest if I ride just slightly ahead of the pace partner (3-10m) so I can adjust without shooting out the back and having to sprint to catch back on. Also when you’re behind the pace partner, there’s no visibility into how many meters from the pace partner you are, so you can’t tell if you’re drifting up or back unless you’re in front. I’m getting better at it, which means it’s a learned skill. I understand why this can be annoying to someone looking for steady pace.

True! Usually my power would be around 1,5 ish… but yesterday it was 1,7 after an hour.

I also tried to stay in front… I always do that! As you said, otherwise it’s not easy to follow. But sometimes I was at 2-2,5ish and saw the distance between me and Diesel behind me decreasing rapidly. How could this even be possible. Needed to go 3,5 to keep distance again. Felt a bit like the rubber band in event…

This highlights the advantage/disadvantage of reduced trainer difficulty. One reason to not change to 0% is that you’ll never just feel a hill. I’m guessing there’s a somewhat ideal setting (maybe around 25% or thereabouts), where you might be able to just focus on keeping the same cadence when you hit an uphill which would naturally up your wattage. This of course doesn’t help when you hit the downhills.

Someone remind me, what is TD setting effect on downgrades? And would there be value in knowing what TD that the PPs are set at?

Zwift halves the effective gradient on downhills, and then TD is applied on top of that.

TD is irrelevant for bots, since watts are watts.

Well, thing is, DD never rode on hills… at least I never rode with him Zwift KOM… just flats like tempus fugit.

And I always was around 1,5 after an hour…

Watts are watts, but you’d want to match speed of the PP. So on an eg. 6% downgrade, is a PP riding equiv of a 3% or 1.5% or something else? If PP is getting speed benefit of full 3% downhill at given wattage, but a participant is possibly getting 0% downhill benefit if riding with TD at 0, wouldn’t they need to increase watts even further?

TD doesn’t affect your speed down (or up) a hill, because that’s purely based on watts. TD only affects how hard it is to pedal, which doesn’t bother a PP.

Ok, I think I’ve got it. So (forgetting PPs for the moment), if 2 riders do an aerotuck on a downhill, there’s no difference then between their speeds if one has TD at 100% and the other at 0%?

That’s not a good example, because TD doesn’t come into affect anyway if you’re not pedalling (which you won’t be if you’re in supertuck).

But all TD does is affect how much resistance you feel, and your power uphill/downhill is dependent on the watts that you generate. It’s similar to how on a long climb setting TD low doesn’t make any difference to how many watts you need to generate to get to the top.