Nonstop losing races because char go to late to supertuck

It is so annoying to climb a hard hill and losing the group, because your char go to late to supertuck. On down hill, i stop padeling. I have 0 Watt but the freewheel is still spinning so i have the rpm from freewheel and my Char is not going in supertuck. As soon the freewheel on my directtrainer (elite direto x) is still, my char going in supertuck, but the group is allready more the 3 seconds away and it is impossible to catch them alone.

Please make supertuck a little weaker, so it is possible to catch the group with 1000W, or get rid of supertuck because it is not allowed in professional races.

(If someone asks. I weigh 82 kg, but it doesn’t matter, because the same thing would happen with 100 kg)

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Zwift definitely goes by the wattage, not your freewheel. There’s a delay, and typically you would want to stop pedaling at ~55–56 km/h when you know the hill continues and your speed will continue to grow, but if it feels like your delay is way off the others (taking the anticipation into account) you should see if a calibration or factory calibration of your Direto helps.

In the meanwhile, you can always just keep pedaling slightly to stay in the group. You don’t have to put out much power to stay in.

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Descents are where I lose most of my races. I’m a lighter rider, 65kg, so the heavier guys falls faster. If I stop pedaling at 35mph and my avatar doesn’t go into the supertuck, I’m off the back and having to go deep into the red to get back on. Innsbruckring is a perfect example. If I’m not right on the lead riders’ wheels over the top, it’s game over.

If you lose the wheel, yeah, you’re out. But as long as you are in the group, you do not need to go into supertuck to stay in the group. I do this often, and have done it when I’ve been down to 63 kg.

Calibration is likely to make no difference, since it’s usually a trainer-model-dependent thing as to how long after you stop pedalling your trainer reports a low enough wattage for Zwift to put you into supertuck.

Some models of trainers are very quick to put you into supertuck, and some aren’t.

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Except the OP is saying that Zwift is showing zero watts, while the freewheel is still spinning – which should trigger going to supertuck. So, it’s kinda sounding like supertuck is not triggered by wattage, but maybe by cadence? Or does possibly setting of whether you have instant vs 3-second power set have an impact. I’ve read that ERG workouts anyway have much more instantaneous changes in power when using instant vs. 3-second.

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Yeah, supertuck is not triggering if i have 0 Watts, but cadence from freewheel. I need to wait 10-20 secs till i have no rpm from freewheel and 0 cadence in Zwift to get supertuck. I am wonder that not much more Zwifters have the same problem.

as an experiment, do you have an external cadence sensor you could put on your trainer bike, and pair that with Zwift for cadence instead of the smart trainer?

I have a crank-arm-power-meter that i use on my real life bike. Thank you for your solution, i didn’t thought about it, maybe i can buy a cheap cadence-meter.

All Zwifters with the same trainer as you will likely have the same problem. And those with some other trainers that behave similarly.

Hi @Viktor_Frank5979

Looking at your race 111 Cieontonce v- race. When you went over Boxhill the last time your trainer took some time to reach Zero watts. Was this when you could not go to super tuck.

Zwift powerZero

Super tuck only happen once your trainer goes below 11 watts. From Zwift insider

Steve had the correct idea.

It does not look at cadence. Also the trainer spinning flywheel wont show cadence if you are not pedaling, the cadence is calculated by measuring the peaks and low points in the pedal stroke.

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Wow, that trainer has issues if that’s the point in the race that’s being referred to. To drop to the req’d 11 watts, it looks like it took between 12-14 seconds to register low enough watts?

Is your real-life bike what you use on your smart trainer? Or another bike just for trainer usage?

If you’re already using you real-life bike for Zwift, try even using both the Power and Cadence from the crank-based power meter – use your trainer only for controllable functions. Maybe or maybe not this will help.

Thanks for trying me to help gerrie, steve and john.
Its another bike only for Zwift.

I find out that it is a Elite problem:

One user did written:
"Getting into the Aero-Super Tuck position is the one area where Elite users are at a serious disadvantage.

Given that Zwift are not going to remove this element from its in game training/racing (following the UCI’s ban on this position in real racing) could Elite not update firmware to address this problem? On a recent race on the Innsbruck shorter circuit, just after the “Leg Snapper” climb there is a short descent. While I was turning over 300 watts, other riders (presumably on other devices) were simply gliding past me whilst in the super-tuck position. I appreciate this is only virtual racing, but if several other riders have a distinct advantage, then this is an area that Elite really needs to improve.

While I love using my Direto XR, it is somewhat frustrating when other avatars come flying past without having to turn the pedals, simply by being in the super-tuck position and this is the only criticism I would have for the Direto XR."

I guess, i bought the wrong smart trainer for Zwift racing :frowning:

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Very interesting, since I ride the original Direto. I’ll play with this the next chance I have when I’m doing some speeds in the mid-30s.

Presumably there might be circumstances where this flaw is also an advantage, if it continues to report power even after you stop pedaling?

As a “Feature Request”, maybe ask Zwift to change the threshold to 30 watts (from 11) or thereabouts. It’s not like anybody would realistically be pedaling at 30w anyway. Could maybe be immense improvement for a lot of Elite trainer owners with negligible downside?

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Or you can look at it the other way every time you stop pedaling you get soom free watts.:joy:

To be honest I don’t really use the super tuck, I think I do better keeping my power up and usethe time to flush the lactate out of my legs.

But contacting ELITE may be helpful.

Were you going at the speed necessary for a Supertuck when you stopped pedalling? If not then that would meant it took much longer than necessary.

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Not a scientific test, but I just did the Reverse Epic KOM on my Direto XR. On the first descent part after the KOM, I got my speed up to 35mph and stopped pedalling on a -6% gradient (Trainer Difficulty set to approx 75%). It took approx 6 seconds for my avatar to go into supertuck. Which felt like roughly my normal experience.

Just curious, while you noticed the 6 second lag to go to supertuck, did that same 6 second period align with how long it took Zwift to show you were down to 11 watts or lower? I guess I’m wondering if Zwift has it’s own built-in lag to change to Supertuck, beyond whatever time it takes for trainer and Zwift to reflect drop to the <11 watts required?

Ie. maybe Zwift gives riders a bit of time to change their mind about wanting to go to Supertuck and start pedaling again if they stopped for second or two for whatever reason?