Just had a thought - perhaps Eric Min’s, ‘long climbs are boring, I tried them’ line is really just a red herring. Maybe they know that if they put in proper climbs that it could make the ‘Zwift weight’ problem spiral further out of control.
Organisers would start races on those climbs and we all know that people will magically lose a ton of weight as it means much more in that scenario. Keeping the roads rolling at least provides some benefit to using real heavier bodyweights.
That said, it’s still not good enough a reason to not have proper climbs in a cycling application.
Tian - I think if Zwift though that lots of people would use the long climbs then they would certainly invest in big long climbs, they have all our riding data and stats they know how often people climb what routes are used most.
I agree big climbs can look pretty and a good challenge, would people use them all the time, i don’t think so. Look at the volcano or the epic KOM there are only a hand full of people up there.
I made a workout to simulate a long climb and I just pick any route and do my hill training.
Seems to me the easiest near-term solution (that would benefit everybody and not just the climbers) would be ability to customize routes letting me skip from place to place. Managing the Strava impact shouldn’t be that difficult - just make them a series of independent segments.
There are times when I just have 40 minutes, and I want to do an intense climb, but right now there is no good way for me to do that. At the very least, let me save my starting position so I can dive right into the EPIC kom.
And I understand that I should be able to achieve whatever I want with the workout feature (just creating a long high resistance timeframe just doesn’t feel the same to me), but I might as well be watching a video of a guy riding a bike. It doesn’t feel like it is me, and thus the hill doesn’t force me to up my game.
Agree. The ability to jump to any location on the map and to splice together sections to make a longer climb would be a nice feature. I certainly would not mind a new, bigger climb but I suspect that would not appeal to a majority of Zwift users
Completely agree Zwift needs a long, continuous climb so adding to this thread. The Watopia climb to the radio tower is plenty long, but it’s not consistent enough in either direction. Give us something like a short version of the Whiteface climb near Lake Placid - 7.9 miles for 3,500 vert at very steady 8%. I realized that would seldom get used on Zwift, so why not start a climb under the water (why not?) and make a different route to the radio tower that’s more consistent.
For the record, I like the climbs far more than the unrealistically overly twisty routes. That new jungle loop gives me a headache, but the shallow climb to/from the loop is a great addition.
The Epic is a long climb, esp. with the radio tower. The volcano is a nice medium climb like Box Hill (for some it is a short climb).
As stated above, " I realized that would seldom get used on Zwift " Exactly. Its the same with the “build a 112 km course for Ironman.”
I like that Zwift forums are not only zealously supported, but read with interest at Zwift. I would rather have the next Watopia course and the “new map” than a double length version of the epic climb. Double your weight so it takes twice as long. Boom! I just blew your mind.
I noticed there’s a barriered turn-off on the new jungle route just before the main dirt section, and closest to the mountains.
I’m hoping that this is going to be a much asked for mountain expansion on the south-west side of the mountains.
Hoping for a long sustained alpe d’huez or lacets de montvernier type climb of ~850m altitude gain ( alpe d’huez is 1135m ).
A route right over the top with a glandon type junction near the top with a fork to the tower and another with an extra few hundred metres climb would be best.
Stephen: Just curious…how many times a month do you ride to the tower?
If I could select (start at base of climb) I might do it more than once a month. It’s a 30 minute ride to get to the tower. Even the Jungle Loop takes 14 minutes (9 km). In that time, I could have done a whole lap (and its another 5 minutes to the lap counter) .
Better as a percentage of the times I use Zwift is better, so ~25%.
How often I use Zwift varies. Primarily TrainerRoad from Oct-March.
Still, got a bit bored with the same old roads.
Agree with you that both the EpicKOM & Jungle take some getting to. Sometimes that’s fine if I’m just doing a single out & back loop, othertimes just frustrated it takes so long.
So, yes I agree.
I’d like a couple of extra Mountain Loops. I’ve posted it as a feature a while ago, for a Mountain Loop & Mountain Loop CCW. If there was a different start point it would make it more appealing.
by the way, i find it much much more (in reality and virtual) motivating to ride a long climb to the top, than make rounds and rounds on a flat route. Making a climb, you have a clear goal - that motivates you to even ride 2 hours or more on the roll.
AND i thought that is what Zwift wants to be - helping you to make a monotonous ride on the roll going as fast as possible by
… but sometimes i think today it’s more important for zwift how the butterflies in the jungle look like
If you guys want long climbs give Bigring VR a try - they’ve got tons of realistic long climbs. But you’ll come back to Zwift because these long long climbs are a drag in the virtual world. It’ll be something you’ll do once and never want to repeat.
@Zee Kryder ZO - the weight doubling suggestion misses the point. It’s not so much that there aren’t long(ish) climbs in Zwift, it’s that there aren’t any continuous long climbs. When you start the Epic KOM you get an initial steepish ramp to the bridge, and then a long, nearly-flat drag across the bridge. There are numerous other flat bits and short descents on the way up. If you are a climber it’s difficult to get into a rhythm. The reverse side of the mountain is even worse, punctuated with regular short descents.
I’m not saying that the gradient should be the same all of the way up, but a good climb should have a gradient that’s consistently above a certain level. And for training FTP for climbing it helps to have a gradient that doesn’t vary too much.
Answering your question to Stephen for myself - during the winter I’ll do the whole mountain route at least once a week on average.
@Edward Lim - haven’t tried Bigring but will look into it. But I know you are wrong about long climbs being a drag because I’ve been doing them for nearly 10 years on the Tacx TTS videos and keep coming back them from Zwift… It’s clearly an individual thing, hence my comments above about Zwift needing to cater for all its customers’ needs, not just the majority.
I like the idea of an epic climb. I race. Not well. Im big. 220lbs. But I love climbing. Alone or with a few equally skilled people. By epic, I mean the kind that is a brutal challenge. Like 10 000m. It would be an uncomfortable thing. It is an imaginary place. No one can see the top. It is mythical. As you take a break, you initiate a clock that will time out. And put you out of the ride. Climbers try. And stall. Their barely visible holograms are on the side of the road like debris. Climbing higher, the weather deterioriates. Wind picks up making it more difficult. It is relentless. The clouds gather. It darkens. Candles burn in red jars at the side of the road as markers. wind sweeps snow like dust. The road turns to gravel. Homes and every other sign of civilization disappear. Fellow riders would pace with one another. And, as a must, the cruelest parts are in the final 2000m. For demoralization. Lonely animals watch. Snowy. Black birds. And soon, they too disappear. All thats left is gruesome. And when you can’t take anymore, there are three more punishments waiting. Finally, the top. And that would a designers haven. Does the sun open wide up with a spectacular view? In the final 1000m do you win a jersey, does confetti explode? Do the riders on zwift get a notice and get to cheer? Who knows. But it’d make a nice challenge. The feeling is one of thinning. weather. architecture. features. until it is bleak.
