We need a pace partner at 2.4 w/kg, half way between Maria and Coco, thus Mariko. I would guess that the peak of the bell curve of riders is in the 2.5 w/kg range and this is where more specificity in Pace Partners is needed. For me, Maria works out to 180 watt average versus 210 for Coco. That’s a big gap which would be nice to close.
Thanks
I’d be fine with more pace partners, but since you’re stuck with the current assortment for now, it’s easier to make a slow pace partner harder than it is to make a fast pace partner easier. You can use the Zwift steel bike with classic wheels, or a gravel bike, to make Maria harder. (Unless the route goes onto gravel in which case the gravel bike approach backfires, but that is relatively rare.)
[quote=“Alex Pond [mbrc], post:1, topic:605138, username:Alex_Pond”]
I would guess that the peak of the bell curve of riders is in the 2.5 w/kg range
[/quote]
Your guess may be wrong as @James_Zwift had a very good look at rider numbers before arriving at the current configuration of Robopacers.
Maria with me on a gravel bike on tarmac takes more watts than me riding with Coco on a fast bike! Not even joking.
At 70kg Maria is 155ish watts. Coco is 180 watts. For me that’s the difference between comfortable Z2 and the top of Z2 (low end of Z3 on climbs)
I think that’s maybe just too narrow a band to slip in another RP. Instead, maybe ride with Maria for an hour, then with Coco for an hour? That’s what I did yesterday.
ETA: The weight and watts quoted above are my weight and watts for steadily riding with the RPs in question
It is 75kg for Maria and the in 2022 newly introduced PP
All pace partners are 75kg.
I was talking about my weight and my watts 
Ah, sorry 
My bad. I could have been clearer. 
The only thing about changing bikes, etc, is that I have to think about it. I’d prefer not to have to change configurations every time I ride. I might switch between my warm-up, an event, and then a pace partner all within an hour and I can see giving up on the re-configing fairly quickly. I will try the gravel bike with Maria if it is going to be an extended session. But if they are going to add any PPs in the near future, better the middle zones to plug some Z2’ish holes, than an zone outlier for a smaller Zwift population.
Some lighter pace partners who tackle the mountainous routes would be nice.
It I suspect the most popular would be having 1 pace partner of every power category always on tempus fugit all the time. Everyone prefers the flattest routes.
I tested a considerable number of routes last Summer. I dropped the really hilly stages due to low attendance.
Have you tested the impact of PD4 on Robo pack’s with the Robo riding a TT bike? Right now, a Robo surges based on the surging of the riders around them. At least the Robo won’t be surging within the pack, the pack will be surging around them. So if you want to ride a consistent pace in a Robo group, you can just stick to the Robo knowing it won’t be surging with the pack.
Only for racing Otherwise, give me some rollers.
Only have to watch the robo-pacer groups for Maria, Coco, Yumi or Jacques- if one of them rides a slightly hilly group the next nearest one will be flooded with 200+ riders.
If Coco is on a slightly hilly route then there are often only 20 riders. Everyone seems to prefer Tempus and Tick Tock by the looks of the numbers.
When Constance is on a flat route, there are 20+ riders at times - when on a not so flat route, Constance will have 0 riders.
The old Amelia Anquetil used to get at least 6-10 riders when it was a steady 4.2w bot at 65kg riding the routes going via the Epic KOM. That was very consistent because I was riding with them most days. That was good training - 70km of that was excellent.
[quote=“Alex Pond [mbrc], post:13, topic:605138, full:true, username:Alex_Pond”]
Have you tested the impact of PD4 on Robo pack’s with the Robo riding a TT bike? Right now, a Robo surges based on the surging of the riders around them. At least the Robo won’t be surging within the pack, the pack will be surging around them. So if you want to ride a consistent pace in a Robo group, you can just stick to the Robo knowing it won’t be surging with the pack.
[/quote]
People in those groups really need to ride at the appropriate pace. If they want to push harder, they should join a faster robo-pacer instead of dragging the group along faster (which hurts those who are struggling).
The old Amelia Anquetil pace partner was great for that, the pace was consistently fast enough that nobody had enough spare energy to do sprinting or similar. Everyone tried to stay in the group.
TT bikes for the pace partner wouldn’t work, the bot would be dropped.
That’s precisely why it would work. Zwifters would eventually find the Robo that goes the pace they want to ride at. If riders normally drive the slower bot pace higher and the bot doesn’t respond, they will move up to a faster bot. The Zwifters, who want to ride a particular pace, will stay with the correct bot.
We’ve tried pacers without draft before. It went badly.
Having the garage have a favorites Bike setup would be ideal. Say 3 setups are favorited for one to easily pick and choose.
Was that before the 10% up/down on the inclines?
It was back in the days of the steady pace partners - some which were heavier and some lighter.
The pace bots had the Tron bike, but no draft. From memory most of Coco group rode at 1.8w/kg or less while the bot stayed at 2.5w.
So many rode with Bowie instead