Lying about race rules

Hello. I signed up for a race (https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=284433) which did not require the use of a heart rate monitor. I read the description before signing up, and still can’t find where it says a HRM is required.

Anyway, I have the strongest start, pushing 6w/kg for about a minute, and get a small group together.

Almost immediately after I let off the power to my 4.5w/kg FTP pace, this dude starts hassling me and saying I’m disqualified for not wearing a HRM. I tell him that the description on ZwiftPower had no indication of that rule, and keep racing. He keeps hassling me and telling everyone I’m faking and cheating, and not to chase me.

Keep in mind this guy is going 5.5w/kg at 145bpm for 10 minutes. He tells me to read more carefully, and that I’m Dq’d.

Thinking he’s some sort of organizer or affiliated with the race, I minimize Zwift and look at the description again - no mention of HRM rule.

By that point I load back into the race, but everyone is 1 minute ahead of me and they’ve past the initial climb. I had to back out and forfeit a race I probably could’ve made top 10 in, which is good for me in A levels.

When I quit out of the event he was still at 5+ w/kg and low heart rate relative to his power. He was also 1 minute ahead of all the otherA’s and A+’s.

I guess I just wanted to vent because this was the first time I’d encountered someone who seemed to be both weight cheating (and neither on ZwiftPower site either) and trying to make a strong rider quit the race. Feel like a complete fool for falling for it.

I’m not crazy, right? Do these races that I linked to require HRM?

As far as Zwift results are concerned, you don’t need an HRM.

With ZwiftPower results, many races require an HRM, but the situation varies slightly depending on the race. ZP itself states this:

Some races will require a HRM be used. There are 2 options available - only those with a hrm can win each category, or all riders require a hrm

As far as I know, the only way to tell if you need an HRM is the race description though. If it doesn’t mention it, I’d assume it to be OK.

e.g. this race description mentions it, and you can see a load of filtered out riders in the results:


https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=284410

It might be that the rider in question themselves didn’t understand rules about use of an HRM for the race, rather than it being deliberately aimed at getting you to drop out.

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Cheers Daren. I think you’re right, he probably wasn’t doing it deliberately. I think in the heat of the moment it seemed like he was because he was so insistent that my power was fake, even though it was within my Z4. My BP was up from pedaling too, hard to think straight when you’re working hard lol.

Thank you for clearing these rules up. I was wanting to do one race a week as a competitive aside to training, and was feeling a little angry that someone would accuse me of cheating when, for me, the race was something I’d been looking forward to.

Next time I’ll just ignore it and keep riding, or use my HRM for my weekly races regardless.

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Why wouldn’t you be wearing a HR monitor? Makes me wonder about you!

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Plenty of reasons.

e.g.

  • doesn’t have one
  • battery is flat
  • he does but it’s not paired to Zwift (HR is personal data not everyone wants to share)
  • can’t find it

No doubt other reasons too.

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Some of the other reasons can be related to cheating at racing as well

Seems like the hurdles to clear to get power numbers are much higher than the hurdles to get HR

If I was racing legit and someone gave me a hard time I wouldn’t quit

Hi Elliot,
if you like Zwift racing I think you have found a new sparring partner.
If I was you, I’d get a HRM and go back and race against them some more.
All the best for your future Zwift racing.
“Ride On”

ps you could join ZwiftPower and let them sort the results out for you, if you haven’t already.

HR does not tell you much more than the racer was alive. HR is different for everyone.

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Indeed - we were talking about the ability to fake ANT+ readings (HR and/or power) back in 2015!

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@Gerrie_Delport what you say is true to a degree, however, if the rider is cheating and a comparison is made between heart rates and most riders in the group have an average of 140 but the cheat only 110 say then surely this is useful?

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It is just a game.

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@dot_gitignore I don’t understand why you want this?

OK I get it now and your resting HR is much lower mine (about 60).

However I would think that if we both were working out close to our limit (ie not sandbagging) our heart rates would be similar, if riding in the same group. I haven’t really analysed the data but a quick look at a few races on Zwiftpower the riders seem to have fairly similar compared to a few placed above and below them, regardless of the grouping.

The problem of a sandbagger ruining the racing is still there is of course as this checking could only be applied post race.

I think there is no simple answer.

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I don’t think absolute heart rate tells us a lot, as you say; but the profile potentially does. Even taking into account HR drift and lag, we could expect the HR trace to reflect effort.

As as Zwift have all the numbers, they could do things like calculate the avg/peak HR in a race as a percentage of a rider’s highest HR peaks and 20 min averages.

e.g. if I have a peak of 172 and a highest 20 min average of 160, then in a race where I peak at 150 and average 140, I’m probably sandbagging. :wink:

Sounds very complicated to me. I propose a ranking system, you finish in the top a few times and you move up. You lose a few of races you move down.

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Define “lose”. :stuck_out_tongue: Can’t drop down just because you don’t win a race…

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There must be a system to move up and down. So as you stop gaining points at some point you will start loosing points and that will put you in a lower cat.

almost something like an ELO system used in chess.

Yes I meant to say lose - Typing while training is not always good. LOL

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Yeah, I agree with some sort of decay - I said as much previously. I just don’t think it should be anything to do with losing races, as such. Downgrading might be a function of failing to gain enough points, but it should take an entire season (at least 6 months) into account.

The system would have to be designed in such a way that it takes field size into account, too. Not finishing “top 20” shouldn’t lead to downgrading if you’re finishing 25th out of 60 in your category - you still belong there.

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ZP has a ranking system that seem to work, https://www.zwiftpower.com/rankings.php

Bring on a points based system asap.
I’m more than happy to start at the bottom and stay there :cry: or if possible work my way up a bit. :slightly_smiling_face:
I’d view it as another Zwift challenge. :smiley:
“Race On”

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