Is W/kg a good metric for group rides?

At some point, ride descriptions should be more descriptive. With the large range, maybe they need to spell out… “this is a ride at your own pace… we won’t keep the group together”

And, not going into the same discussion all over again, but I do think it’s confusing with these quasi-race things going on. Invites a lot of A and B riders to go slumming in a D ride in order to ‘win’ a group ride. Should have, IMO, been posted as an A-B recovery ride with a race at the end. Not posted as a D ride.

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Yes, same event but december 26th at 10h30.
Right off the bat, the pace (speed) was reallllly fast.
The idea behind my initial post was not to complain about a situation I experienced.
I was only questionning the relevancy (?) of the w/kg metric.

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All riders of all abilities are welcome to join any group ride . No one is winning a timed event.

The point of the “race” in the end is to have a bit of fun to go all out if you feel like it.

Like a IRL ride that race to the town line.


This is quite common, you need to be spinning up the last few seconds before the ride starts or you will get dropped right away.

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Right, and in all these situations, nobody knows who crossed the line first. :wink:
But, is what you said about these types of group/race rides correct, in that they’re all timed and therefore there aren’t any ZP rankings?

But he should have been able to catch up during those portions the ride was only doing 1wkg or thereabouts.

No one cares who cross the line first it is a group ride. It is for fun.

Any group can be joined by any rider of any category if it is timed or not.

I didn’t say all are timed but this one was. Group rides doesn’t count for ranking.

Not if 2.5 was already his limit. If you loose the draft in a big group it xan be very hard to catch up if you don’t start fast.

It takes some experience from a ride leader to make sure everyone starts together. But riders also learn to go out fast just in case the pace is high.

Do you really think the winner didn’t know and didn’t care that he won? Should the OP not care or wonder why he was left in the dust even because it was a fun group ride?

Group rides do have ranking (places) afaik if they’re not timed. It’s the timed events where ZP randomizes the rankings. “Shows Race Results” is an oft selected option for “Ride” events.

Yes, at least I am now aware that any rider of any capability can join any ride of any rating. I really do think though that this causes a lot of confusion and dissatisfaction with the platform in cases like these, since it’s not at all apparent that’s what’s going on.

All in all, I think Zwift has to do a better job socializing or regulating what’s going on; otherwise there’s going to continue a trend of posts from folks wondering what they’re doing wrong – when it’s not their fault.

This is the ride I’ve been leading since Beta:

As for speed: (a) no brakes; (b) speed varies according to size of group; (c) speed varies according to pull of front riders; (d) rides that state speed mean as an average, which is next to useless; (e) different courses result in different speeds for the same effort; (f) changing the description every week to suit a change in course would be a nightmare


Cool description and very helpful. But imagine now your ride recurred on the same course quite often. Why wouldn’t you know what leaders doing 2 or 2.5 wkg would yield in terms of avg speed over that course? For rides that do in fact recur on courses that have been used before, providing avg speed guideline it seems would be very easy to supply.

Like I said it is just like a sprint in a IRL everyone go all out for the town line. Yes someone do win but it is just for fun because not every one was going all out and it was a mixed field. In cases like this riders will race there friends that they are know are of similar ability.

99% of all riders know that they an join any group ride. Almost like IRL you can join a group ride but you can’t go race any category.

IRL, it would get pretty old and pretty unliked if it was a practice for the club’s normal A-ride guys to join a D-ride club, and pull off and disappear halfway through a ride.

Why the whole club ride together and at the end they sprint. We do it all the time. You get to know who is on your level and then you race.

I used to lead a popular ride Sunday mornings and we had a spicy bit in the end people loved it.

Current most of the ODZ rides has a fast lap or fast km at the end.

Different experiences I guess. Our club posts A, B, C, rides. They’re speed rated and the leader posts the range and chooses a route for their own ride. Nothing wrong with townline sprints, but IRL the A riders don’t join the D club rides. It’s that simple.

The whole club doesn’t ever depart together really ever (could be because of the over 2k members and that would be a mess on the roads).

No, not really

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So you don’t allow a A rider to join a C ride?

In Zwift we welcome any rider to join our group rides.

Not really my argument. My argument is that if there’s going to be a race portion(albeit informal) and it’s understood A and B and whatnot riders can and will likely join, and will also speed off at A or B paces, it shouldn’t be labelled a C, or in this instance a D ride in the first place. It’s a source of confusion. Someone (maybe yourself?) suggested that the E label might suit these types of rides, as that’s kinda catch-all moniker and then it’s understood the ride really doesn’t have a rating and riders will be going at all sorts of paces.

A D ride that’s listed as 1-2.5wkg sounds very much to uninitiated that the ride will fluctuate between those 2 bookends. Not ending up at an average 2.5wkg with a lot riders at about 3wkg for at least (per ZP) 20 minute periods of time. I’d be interested if there was really any period of time where the ride was doing a steady sub-2.0 pace.


Group riding is an art. Picking group rides is also an art in itself. It is like going on a date, sometimes you have a great time and others not so much. You have to try different groups to find the clubs and ride leaders you like. The unadvertised sprints within rides or at the end of rides can be surprising. Many times the ride leader will continue to hold the advertised pace while those that want to sprint, do so. If I don’t like how I am riding or the way the leader is working I quit and do something else. I usually end up riding with one of the Pace Bots to finish out my intended ride time. There is something for everyone in Zwift you just have to find what suits you.


Actually, it’s just quite real world, light riders suffer on flat and heavy riders suffer on hills.

All group things starts very fast whatever kind of group (yes even group D)and event it is. Never start to grind according to count down, just grind 350w above and 5 seconds before start and you can catch some groups.

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