I was bumped in Cat. can I get help as to why?

I’ve been at this stuff a long time, and while I’m no professional obviously, I’m quite happy with my training schedule and efforts.

What am i missing that makes this “C” category so great? beer at the finish line? this is like the 3rd thread i’ve read recently about someone bemoaning being upgraded. it’s a compliment!! you should be proud! since the forum won’t let me post links , i’ll cut&paste a reply with some good advice from a different thread
by Eugene Chan [PenVelo] » Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:24 am

It’s honestly really simple…

If you’re remotely close to the category limit, you upgrade. This is for personal progression. No one cares if you win a C race, not even your mom, so don’t let pixelated trophies hold you back. Start racing Bs. Get dropped within 3 minutes of the start. Find a grupetto and try to sweep up any others who get dropped later. Finish the race.

Race again. Get dropped 6 minutes in. Ride hard in your grupetto. Finish the race.

Start all over again.

At 94kg, you are probably cruising in your category on flat courses compared to 65, 75 and even 85kg riders. You should easily be able to hang onto the front group of a flat B race.

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If my mom saw that I finished last, she’d probably assume everyone else was cheating even before I say anything to her about Zwift variables :smile:

I do tell myself this frequently

At around 68kg, I’ve wondered if I have the WORST of both worlds - hills and flats. We all have to finish the course, I guess.

Man, you have all the answers.

I think you and Milan confused this thread with one asking for training advice.

Well, you could be right - but you asked why you were bumped in B, than came the FTP - and that was a point where I answered. The categories are based on W/kg, 95% of 20min - so it is about FTP (for the people like you and me - trying to give all in the races; no cheaters and/or sandbaggers).

I am on the bottom in C, could say high D (2,58 W/kg now)?
No chance to win a race - but I surely do not quit racing. It is like IRL - there is a podium for three only…

I am 93kg and Cat C. There was absolutely no cruising in my last race. It was terribly difficult, down right soul crushing and yet I was still only at 3.0. There was no way I could hang with the B Group. I did manage to win C but only by the thinnest of margin and there were 7 other C’s in our lead group contending the sprint finish. Again, no cruising here.

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If you won your cat, I expect the consensus here is that you should to move up. If you won, I would also expect your time to be faster than several B riders. That’s how it works at the bottom of A. My finish time is usually mid-B, yet I can’t enter B without getting DQed.

I wouldnt expect that at all, particularly if they are avg 3.0 for the event. What if the field quality was low, what if the winner happens to have a great sprint but barely able to hang on in a double draft … lots of reasons why it should take moving averages to figure out a riders sustainable performance level.

The question is “is one sandbagging or not”?
I happened to watch Vincent’s video as well as another that was recently post by another rider.
Vincent did not have his power graph [G] activated on screen but you could see his HR was up and he freq referenced his FTP and when he was approaching VO2 max efforts.
Good race - well done.

The other rider, spent a lot of time in the greens and blue and even dipped into the grey.
The [G] shows power ranges.
This rider did not blow thru the cat limit but just cruised to the end then had an incredible sprint.

Per Zwiftpower.com I did beat the last 2 B riders. It appears that they were in my group and did not sprint for the finish. I cannot know for sure but perhaps they were not motivated to do so being in the back of their Cat.

As for B riders not on ZP it look like there was only 1 additional one and he was back a ways.

Total of 15 Bs registered.

Lots of yellow or more in there. Again no coasting. And my 3rd highest HR peak ever in my adult life.

I understand that many may think this however that is simply not the rules we have in place today with Zwiftpower.com. The rules (like them or not) is 95% of 20 minute power 3.19 or less for C Cat. We all play by those same rules fairly.

In fact I was 2.81 w/kg for 95% of 20 minute power. The better question maybe is how did I not lose my race to others that seem to have better w/kg performance than me, including a couple that just slightly over limits?

Again I will say I fully support a results based system but that is not the system we have in place today. I will race within any system that is put in front of me, lots of fun!

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Hi, ZP police. What do you see here?

Thanks.

Zwift could use this data to determine the definition of sandbagging.
Some percentage of race in the green or blue and the rider gets upgraded.
Publicly post what the new rules are and move on.

I think that red and orange spike in the middle was when you and the B rider attacked but no one followed.
That was fun to watch.

I am sorry but I am not ZP police. I see the photo but do not know what you would like for me to see without any additional information. Is there a problem with this riders performance that I do not see?

Thank you.
The more data available, the better the result.

The problem with that method is the colors are zones based on ftp.

Ftp will change as fitness increases or decreases, rider takes time off, has injury, or simply manually changes it. I could lower my ftp 20W and make everything look real red before racing.

In fact I feel strong than my previous test so I maybe 5-10W stronger and my color may not be accurate. It is accurate as of my last test about 5-6 weeks ago though.

You can’t see if there is sandbagging or not. Or what do you see? A, B, C or D? Upper, middle, lower cat?

True, but this seems to give an indication as to a riders effort.