I was bumped in Cat. can I get help as to why?

Racing ZwiftPower Community
41

I see very hard efforts then periods were there seems to be not so much effort.
Could be going down hill?

42

Cat is based on w/kg. I see power here but no weight data. If the rider is 100kg that is VERY different than someone who is 50kg.

We also don’t know if this is an all out effort. There are several locations where the rider stops pedaling, cadence goes to 0.

Sorry I cannot help more

43

Race organisers would say, that heart rate is to low → sandbagging.

44

Context is everything:

Without weight, Cat is irrelevant.

Heart rate range is actually the same as mine for those stats.

Zones indicate either

  • cruiser,
  • someone that is stronger with endurance and not holding threshold, or
  • someone that is hanging with a group and cant make a break
  • or, as Tim mentioned, is on a hilly course and they keep going into the red and need to recover
45

I don’t see how HR can be used. HR is different for everyone. Some max out at 210, some 190, and others at 160. If this rider has a max 210 then this is an easy ride for him, If his max is 160 this may have been a very easy effort.

46

I don’t think heart rate is needed.
A riders category or weight is also unneeded.
I’m just suggesting this be used as a measure of a racer’s effort?

In a race, we assume everyone is trying hard, some harder than others, but still hard.

But still, what ever rule or criteria that is used, it must be clearly stated to everyone.

47

Why are you all arguing about HR and green and blue zones and w/kg?

We need results based ranking.

This should be the goal being worked on now. Anything else is just wallpapering over the cracks.

3 Likes
48

Most wouldnt disagree with your 2nd statement but thats not the point of this post, the chat is about about a specific example (or two).

49

More information:
This is a race
87kg
Cat C (racer)
Power avg. 276W
HF avg. 138

50

Thomas - I suspect you are providing the info because compared to other riders (and maybe history) he is sandbagging. But its a tricky conversation because without knowing whether that person has the ability and course profile that suits him/her to make sustained effort to break away, the audience is just speculating. I suspect if that was my stats, I would be very comfortable throughout and be able to put on a good sprint and possibly podium, but whether I could make a break and sustain it???

51

I want to tell, that is impossible to know someone is sandbagging.
This is a race without categories, all start together and nobody knows to what cat the other racers belong to.

1 Like
52

Results based ranking assumes that a person who wins consistently has improved to the point that they are better than the competion and they do not have to work as hard in order to win.
I’m not sure that’s the case.
IRL, if you win , you move up because they have no other choice.
Zwift has other choices because of all the data we have every ride/race on every rider.

Now, I’m not stating one is better than the other, I’m just saying there are other possibilities.

If someone wins several races but they are maxed out 95-100%, is it okay for them to stay in cat?
I understand people fell offended by getting beat by someone with one hand tied behind their back.
But a full blown neck to neck race seems different.

53

In think it is possible to tell if someone is consistently putting in a hard effort.

The red and orange efforts are very strong.
There are efforts that seem significantly less than the rider’s potential.
There does not appear to be a consistent high level of effort regardless of weight, HR etc.
Some possible explanations are going down hills, coasting etc.

54

This is my race: 28th of 117 (on Zwiftpower). Next C racer found on 54th, 2 min. behind. So some call me sandbagger with 2,98W/kg for 20min max.

55

276/87 = 3,17 W/kg.
I don’t know if you are a sandbagger, but you should do your math homework better.

1 Like
56

Hi Milan,
and should know how Zwiftpower calculates your minimum category. Average power is no criteria. You have to calculate 95% of your best 20 min. power in that race.

57

To answer your question, yes, he is the quintessential sandbagger

Refer below thread:

3 Likes
58

Oh, that thread :open_mouth:

2 Likes
59

Indeed, that thread…but he cancelled his subscription on 13 December 2020 so dont think its an issue anymore :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

4 Likes
60

I rekindled this little fire for a couple reasons.

  1. We should refrain from accusations because there is not a definition of what sandbagging or cruising is.
  2. I had made an observation and was forwarding a hypothesis that sand bagging could be defined as a minimum race power.

There is a max cat limit.
Define a minimum limit.
For those not meeting the minimum, give a DNF.
A rider may not meet the minimum if they are injured so auto upgrade would not be appropriate.
This would not affect a riders ability to enter a race and affect it.
It only removes the carrot.

  1. Apparently , riders starting a race but not finishing is also a problem for those keeping track of points etc.

  2. If we can’t trust the data, then result based is the only other alternative put forward,win or podium so many times and you get auto up graded.

  3. The present Cone of Shame, identifies strong sprinters but is that really the goal?
    Aren’t we trying to identify people who are not working as hard as the other competitors?