Fence feature to harsch

The fence is great. Thanks for implementing it.

The having to concentrate on the pace to stay in the group is the thing that makes group rides good. Makes the time go quicker.

@ Alexander. if you don’t want to change gears, then do a flat TT or change the gradient simulation of your trainer to 0%. If you want to have fun on climbs, drop off the back of the group and chase back on during the climb (I do this).

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Yes, true. I can do this or I can do that.

But what other people can do in this discussion is just to think 1 minute on my proposal. Yes I like the fence and this is a great feature. But why not improve this a little. With my proposal really nothing is lost if it comes to the blob, but a lot is gained.

Just trust people who are riding in the group. These riders are far different than real flyers, so don’t apply the same rules on them. Real social riders pick a social ride for a certain reason. They want the joy of riding together. These riders are not up to be a flyer or speeding up the group. Just trust them. Get rid of this 1 minute for these social riders. It makes no sense.

In the front part… not in front…and not all the time.

There is an art to group riding which i am lucky to have learnt during many years of IRL cycling. A wise cyclist once told me that group riding depends on your brain as much as your legs. This is very true IRL and also applies to Zwift group riding.

I lead rides for my cycling club IRL and it can sometimes be difficult to keep a group of 8-12 together when we are able to directly communicate and see each other in person. It is therefore extremely challenging for Zwift ride leaders to keep 50/ 100/ 200 maybe even 300 riders happy and grouped.

What happens when a rider pushes off the front… another rider wanting to be a little ahead pushes on, then another, then another. It is human nature to want to be at the front. Very quickly there can be 20 or 30 riders all trying to ensure they are in front, subsequently the pace lifts.and the group will stretch out.

The fence was introduced as a tool to hold riders back from pushing beyond the metrics of the ride. Be sure that for every rider that is pressing the fence there are two struggling to hold on at the back. Trust me, i regularly adhoc sweep on rides i drop in to and see this first hand. As a B Cat rider i could press the fence on most group rides but it is much more rewarding to help out at the back.

Alexander, you note that you push beyond the leader as sometimes you get dropped when you lose focus. Perhaps there is a little training involved to improve your concentration? Perhaps you lose focus as the ride is too easy and you would be better off in a harder group ride? I don’t know, but the fence feature has been welcomed by a huge number of Zwifters and the majority seem happy with it working in it’s current format.

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Hi All,
could we have a fence that you could not cycle through?
Call it a barrier.
Even if a Zwifter was putting out way too much power, the barrier would prevent them from leaving the group. It could be set by ride leader, you could even make
it invisible.
Or better still give extra drop points or enhanced milage points for staying very close to the ride leader. I’d definitely like to level up quicker if possible.

“Ride On”

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Good point!

Kind of rubber banding like in workouts, both in front as well in back.

Please no rubber bands in group rides. :flushed:

100% agree. People that are riding off the front know what they are doing, and ride leaders shouldn’t be begging them to hold the pace. I appluad Zwift for trying to address this.

That was how it was prior to fence and it didn’t seem to work then so why what reason to believe it would work now.

Agree with this

But what other people can do in this discussion is just to think 1 minute on my proposal

Thought about your proposal. Don’t like it. Sorry.

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Another fan of the fence here! What is also really nice, are the fenced group rides where the fence get’s lifted at the end for a mini race. Exciting but not as exhausting as a pure race.

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I am fan of the fence too. No question about that. I just noticed that the feature can be improved.

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I joined the suggested group ride and it was a nice ride.

However, the first lap I intented to stay as close as possible to the leader but I got dropped several times during downhill and it took me some effort to chase and join the group again.

The second lap I tried to stay in the front of the pack. During downhill I dropped to the middle of the group near to the leader. But I was still enjoying the social part of the ride since I didn’t need to chase.

Just to be fair, I liked the second lap far more than the first lap. Yes I was “licking” the fence a few times and went over it and saw the counter ticking down. But that whole lap was far more relaxed. Even to complete this, I needed to put more watts/kg than other to ride the same pace in the group.

Btw Gerrie. I noticed your goodmorning greeting, but I don’t have a keyboard so no chatting for me during a ride.

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Morning @AlexanderPerdon

Yes downhill sections can be a bit tricky, we lost a few riders after that first hill. That is why we had to slow down. I think next time I will slow a bit more before going over the top. I try to soft pedal downhill so that I don’t go into the supertuck when leading.

O yes the second lap was a lot of fun, I think I hit the sweet spot on the downhill.

This depend on your weight, lighter riders will have to put out a bit more w/kg especially on the flat sections.

When leading I focus on the w/kg of those around me and I keep their average in the ballpark.

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I think this short descent during the first hill is a little tricky. If you loose contact there it is hard to fight back during the second part of the ascent which seems to be less steep. The best is to regroup just before the second part starts.

For the KOM I noticed that I needed to put 2.7 while you did 2.3 while staying for 30 secs or so allmost near to eachother.

I will decide on sunday if I join again. This ride is fairly easy and since my overal fitness is not at the best at this moment, it fits well to get back on track again.

So just back to Zwift after road season, and find myself disappointed in the implementation of the fence. I believe the original reason for the fence was to STOP FLIERS. I AM NOT A FLIER! But it seems that the implementation is designed primarily to INSIST THAT ALL RIDE IN A VERY TIGHT GROUP. For instance I rode with the Pack today(200+ riders) and we all rode in one MASSIVE group. Riding with a group should not be quite so limiting. Everyone shouldn’t have to be packed into a very small window.

Part of the charm of Zwift was the smaller groups which developed… …where you would wind up riding with those of your own ability and choice of pace, within the stated level …where you actually kind-of felt as if you were getting to know the 5 or 6 people close to you and rode with them for awhile. …and perhaps communicated with them. That seems to be gone. It now seems completely impersonal. Granted I could drop off the back and ride by myself—which I may do, but I already miss those small groups within the stated level which naturally developed.

(In fact, I have no interest in NOT riding in a group. Often I ride with my wife or my other friends from the road. It is now almost impossible to have them draft ME or ride WITH me short of dropping off the back out of the group entirely.)

Short of posting rides without a fence, I would suggest trying a fence much further out—say 5 minutes or 3 minutes or whatever, one which would allow riders to self-select a pace within the spirit of the group without the rigid conformity I have experienced since returning. It would still discourage the crazy fliers. And the constant screwing around based on sprints, climbs, etc could be eliminated.

I really feel that the current implementation is really somewhat misdirected and the cure for fliers is worse than the disease.

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I agree - just started back and the fence could be useful - first group ride I was it was set sensibly and was fine. Second group ride it was set to 8 seconds (!) apparently. This is just pointlessly constrictive.

The reason is that grouping is based on speed, but the ride is based on specific power (W/kg). This might work OK if all the riders were the same weight, but we’re not. Based on real-world physics, and assuming the ride lead is 70 kg and working at 2W/kg then I will ride at 1.3 W/kg on the flat, 1.9W/kg @ 5% and -10W/Kg at -3% (i.e. pedalling backwards on a moderate downhill). I know Zwift fudges the physics, but the point that is that the further from the leader’s weight you are the choppier your ride.

Previously I’d move to a more or less constant pace for me - move a little off the front on the flat and get caught on the hill, be a bit back at the top of the hill and move a bit forward. Now we have fence disciplinarians who seem to believe that anyone 24m ahead of them is a flier (this is the distance covered in 8sec at 2W/kg at 5% gradient). If the lead eases up just a little then…

This is silly. I’ll eventually figure out who they are, and avoid rides they lead, but it all seems overkill for the problem it is supposed to be solving (fliers minutes ahead of the group).

I agree with Robert that the 100+ blobs are paradoxically not a good group ride experience - it just becomes rider soup and you don’t really relate to anyone.

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I think I need to agree with you guys and in that case my proposal also will not work.

Fence at 3 mins or so seems to be the finest solution. I dont believe that this will speed up the group in such a way that riders will be dropped at the back.

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A quick heads up to a ride leader using the fence really well during a ride yesterday ( Sunday 12:50pm UK Team EN Cruise & Crush).

@ScottGiljum was constantly moving the fence to suit the terrain and communicating the changes. During the climbs the fence was removed to allow riders to climb how they wanted. He then turned the fence on/ off a few times to remind stronger climbers off the front to ease off after the climb was completed (each time the fence turned off it reset their countdown). This allowed those quite a distance off the front to ease down and be collected by the beacon group.

Once the climbing efforts were done and the fence was back on he used a gradual reduction of the fence to tighten the group. Ready for the next effort.

All in all, top marks from me. It was excellent leading and a style that could/ should be used by more leaders.

As noted before though, those complaining that the fence is painfully restricted are likely in the wrong group.

I joined World Social Riders on Saturday and the slow pace was killing me. After 7 minutes i quit the event. I was the odd one out and the other 100+ riders were doing their thing within the metrics published. It was the right thing to do in order for me to ride how i wanted and not affect the group. Perhaps more should leave events that they are clearly not matched with?

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