Nobody using the game as it’s intended to be used, or riding an event as it’s intended to be ridden, is doing anything “despicable”. Even people at the front may not be “racing”. They might be out for a zone 2 ride on their spin bike.
which ones? i’m pretty familiar with just about every event there is, but i’ve never seen that one. as scuffed as zwift’s code can be i’m pretty sure it’s not possible for an event designated as a race to have the feature enabled. if it is true, you should report it to zhq, because it’s not the intended design at all
I don’t think they are not “racing”
If they aren’t, then they will have to find some funny ways to justify their Z4 attacks off the front (or maybe 10w/kg is Z2 for some people) and coffee stops on hard parts of the route!
When I posted originally I didn’t realise that the ZRacing series also ticked off the ToW stages. So I’ll join them next time - problem solved for me. (but still the ethics of the coffee stop rankle)!
Chill Rich. There aren’t many rides that also give the mass participation that ToW gives though, and as there are so many rides and races the talent pool is diluted too, which is partly why it’s nice to race a group ride and pitch yourself against everyone.
Maybe the word despicable is a bit too much, my apologies as English is not my mother tongue. And no hard feelings, “hang out with the boys” is not to be taken too seriously too ;-). The thing is I really enjoy racing ToW and ToZ stages, as many other are (and Nathan is right there are not that many rides/races where the pool of riders is so large, it’s part of the fun), and somehow someone who pretends to be racing (I guess only Pogacar could claim a 5w/kg Z2 spin ;-)) only to use a coffee break before attacking the group is robbing me of some well deserved fun. Again, “common sense” sportmanship. That’s all. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming :-).
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- Group Rides are different things than Races.
- Group Rides have different rules than Races.
- Some people treat Group Rides like Races.
- It’s not bad or wrong or out of place for some people to treat Group Rides like Races.
- Regardless of how people treat them in the moment, the rules are different. (See 2)
- Coffee Stops are beneficial and reasonable to people in Group Rides who aren’t treating them like Races,
- Zwift is not going to implement different rules for different people participating in the same event with the same bunch start.
- Therefore Zwift is not going to turn off Coffee Stops for people who want to treat Group Rides like Races, and turn them on for the others.
- Zwift is not going to turn them off in Group Rides for everyone, just so the people who want to treat the Group Ride like a Race won’t have them available.
- If someone wants an event that’s like a Group Ride, but they can treat it like a Race, and not have Coffee Stop available, they can enter a Race.
- If someone wants an event like a Group Ride, but they don’t want to treat it like a Race, and they want Coffee Stop available, but Coffee Stop was turned off to benefit the people who want to treat it like a Race, these people would have no other event to join.
It’s going to happen. And it’s not against any rules, it’s against a literally unspoken (in that group) sense of ‘fair play’ that you have carried with you into the event. If you’re upset, it’s because you’re making yourself upset about it. We do that all the time. But we don’t have to.
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Tom:
It’s going to happen. And it’s not against any rules, it’s against a literally unspoken (in that group) sense of ‘fair play’ that you have carried with you into the event. If you’re upset, it’s because you’re making yourself upset about it. We do that all the time. But we don’t have to.
I’m not asking Zwift to turn it off. An acceptable solution (in my opinion) would be to exclude coffee stop users from the results on ZPower, or at least have the option to filter and exclude them.
The slight difference we have here is that there are people, and this is a fact, who race the group rides, and it’s a fact that there are a small handful who abuse the coffee stop function to improve their results.
That’s the bit that grinds my gears! It’s not against the rules, as you’ve said, but it’s fundamentally not fair play.
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if you wanted to be on the same sheet as them, then take a tactical 
coffee stop yourself, there you go problem solved
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One thing mentioned earlier that I think might be a good idea is: What Zwift could do is keep the TdW group rides as they are, but if someone uses a coffee stop they don’t show up in the ZP position list afterwards. The person using a coffee stop could still blow up a race after resting on a climb (so that might frustrate someone who is racing), but if they are actually racing they probably want to see a low number next to their name on ZP, so the people close to the front (who are more likely racing than others), will be incented to not coffee stop if they want to see their position afterwards on ZP.
Folks who are just treating it as a group ride won’t care either way because… To them it’s a group ride and thus position won’t matter to them.
So, just because it’s a fact there are people who race the group rides… doesn’t make the group rides races. That’s a fact.
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It’s a game not real life
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Anyone can use a coffee stop including yourself so use it to your advantage and look at it similar to a long power up. Can’t call it cheating if anyone can use it
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While i might agree with you it would be nice if they were excluded in results along with late join etc. Zwift are not workign on ZP development so we are stuck where we are.
It’s what you think is not fair play. That doesn’t make it fundamental.
IRL bike racing has plenty of unwritten rules. Don’t attack in a feed zone, etc. Those are unwritten, but they are communicated to people. Everyone knows them. It makes sense, in an IRL bike race, to get upset when someone violates a norm that everyone knows everyone else is aware of.
You are coming into a Group Ride with the notion that, if you’re at the pointy end of things, it should be treated just like a race. Did you talk to anyone else in that Group Ride about it? Do they know that this is how you want to treat it? Do they agree with you? Why is it that you’re projecting your notion of what should be happening onto everyone else?
If I decide to race a Group Ride and I get into the pointy end, then (if I haven’t died first because I’m not that fast) I’ll treat it like a race too. But is it ‘wrong’ for someone to get into that pointy end of a Group Ride, because it’s fun, but decide to treat it like a fun speedy Group Ride?
Say there’s someone who wants to ride a Group Ride that way–fast, but not serious. What should they do? Wait until your lead group has gone, and then ride their ride? Or is it okay if they go ahead and get into that lead group with you? And is it ‘unsporting’ of them to treat it less seriously than you do? I was grumbling recently about people not pulling in breaks. I grumble a lot less when it’s a break in a Group Ride 
On the ZPower thing, I wasn’t aware that ZPower took Group Rides into account for rankings. Do you just mean the list of finishers, with numbers beside them? If that doesn’t affect rankings, why is that important?
Results of group rides are on ZP not relevant.
Coffee stops are allowed, why should anybody be excluded?
I really don’t understand what’s your problem - races are races, there are no coffee stops.
I’m perfectly chilled out, I’m not the one claiming coffee stops on group rides are against sportsmanship etc you might feel the need to race them, but it sounds you do this purely to get a higher finishing position on zwiftpower
Group rides are fine as they are and do not need changing because some people think that racing them is the only way to go
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Apparently some people like to try and do well in “races” where a lot of people aren’t actually racing. I guess that must make them feel better than how they do in an actual race where everyone is racing, right?
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I don’t know about that, that sounds nasty. If I’m riding my bike, in a non-race event, IRL or Zwift, and someone wants to race with me, I’m up for it. And when that happens, I want to do well. 
I don’t think the problem here lies with people trying to do well when others around them are clearly being competitive too. Heck, if my friends and I are throwing crumpled paper into a trashcan and keeping score, I want to do well, lol.
The key is, though, that some others there may not be trying to be competitive. Or not as much as they might be otherwise. That’s causing the problem here. But that doesn’t make trying to do well in general worthy of derision, does it?
The only thing I would like to add because I kind of get a feeling that some do not quite get it: when you are at the “pointy end” of a ToW or ToZ ride, you are most definitely racing, let there be no doubt about it. And again, it’s a fun game with some common sense rules like: do not use an e-bike, try to enter your ballpark average weight and height, and… give your best. If you are too far out your comfort zone you will blow up in smoke and lose the group you’re in and wait for the next one. But Coffee breaks allow you to stay within the group with no effort and you are killing the race dynamics for all the other riders in the group. So in other words, if you do not want to race, don’t, and I guarantee you you won’t stay long at the “pointy end”. If you wanna race, then play the game. Again, sportsmanship, plain and simple. I am a low cat A / high cat B as per Zwift classification, and interestingly enough I always end up near between the top 10% and the top 15% mark, either on ToW / ToZ stages or in cat A races, so for me the only real difference is the number of riders (which makes ToW / ToZ stages so fun to race) .
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You are racing, but others may be doing much less effort. They may be out for a fun ride with terrible equipment that puts them up with the As with no real fitness. Or they may be super strong riders who understand that it’s not a race and ride accordingly. You can’t transfer your intentions onto them.
I’m 100% in favor of giving organizers the ability to disable coffee stop in events. They can already restrict events to people with power meters, and disable late join. It would be cool to have some non-race fondo events like that. Tour of Watopia will never be that kind of event.