what is that, a monty python skit? just use the form and move on bro. or send eric schlange an email about it, he’s the organiser, not zhq.
1 Like
Suggest you do your ‘due diligence’ in future before sniping back at people raising perfectly legitimate concerns on these forums.
Please keep it civil and constructive.
2 Likes
Just wondering why you comparing this to road racing?
I don’t use aero power ups in road racing. Nor do I go 80kmh downhill around a 60 degree bend.
I think we’re both agreed that it definitely is NOT a remotely fair or realistic simulation of real life racing.
What I do take issue with first and foremost however, is weird mindset of the devotees and fanboys that try to present it as such and pour scorn on anyone saying otherwise . Even where a rider’s data is clearly anomalous and implausible ,as is the case here,there are those who nevertheless blindly refuse to question the legitimacy of any such results . In fact, they do the opposite and try to slur any person raising the issue of fair play. It’s like Zwift’s own re-iteration of the fable of the Emperor’s new clothes.
i just dont let people start witch hunts on these forums. there are a million ways to handle things like that correctly, none of which occurred to you. you could contact wattfabrik (who i can personally vouch for as being very fair guys on the whole), eric (also a fair guy), or use the above form for a start…
it’s also off topic, because thread is about zwift owned zrs events, which the tiny races are not. so zwift aren’t really involved anyway
1 Like
My initial comment deliberately contained no information that would explicitly identify any named individual. You are the only one who has mentioned the rider’s team in the open forum. So it’s a little melodramatic to use the term ‘witch hunt’.
Perhaps a better way to ‘handle things… correctly’, would be if the platform itself put a little more effort into managing anomalous rider performance data than it does at present. It’s hardly beyond their capabilities to do this .
And hardly a secret either that a minority of dishonest and selfish subscribers continue to spoil the user experience for the vast majority of honest customers who take their own performances seriously and are happy to accept their correct place, wherever that may be, in the food chain.
As things are currently, the expectation ,based on what you are saying, is that that the onus and responsibility for ‘policing’ dubious and fake achievements should rest with other subscribers. And not with the platform itself.This is unreasonable.
I can understand there is a wish not to upset ANY paying subscriber, but it seems there is a continuing reluctance at the company to confront and deal effectively with a small minority of users, who are spoiling the whole experience for the vast remainder of decent and honest customers.Is that really ‘good for business’?I don’t think so.
When all is said and done, I am hardly a lone voice in the wilderness on this subject.
2 Likes
if you can’t be bothered to take it up with the right people, which in this case would be the rider’s club and/or the actual organiser of the race, then don’t expect anyone to do anything about it. it’s not complicated
1 Like
It is NOT the general responsibility of individual members of the Zwift community to oversee the racing conduct of the rest of the community.
I was calling out the lack of action by Zwift in failing to deal effectively with this issue. I cited a recent example of some clearly dubious race data and suggested that a fairer playing field is needed for all subscribing members interested in racing.
What I didn’t do is invite instructions from you to do X or Y, as if somehow this is MY problem and I need to sort it out. It isn’t .It is a collective problem for the whole community.
If more members bring attention to this issue then that can only be good for the community as a whole. But I’m certainly not going to bother pinging off emails to various people about a race I wasn’t even a participant in.
Like I said earlier, if you too care enough about getting a fairer deal for all members of the Zwift racing community (and it’s really not complicated, as you say) why don’t you send the emails.? You’ve obviously set yourself up as some kind of oracle on these forums ,so doing something useful about this issue might be of value to the rest of us. I don’t see any reason why you can’t do that.
In the same amount of time it’s taken you to pen your terse responses to my original comment, you could’ve done it several times over.
1 Like
i don’t. there’s a more important section of the ToS that everyone conveniently skips over that i do care about though. not that anyone except me has ever read them
2 Likes
Am guessing you’re not thinking this one…
<<< We always want to be responsive to the needs and concerns of our community>>>
1 Like
This ZRS seems to be broken…I think that tuning the old system would make much more sense than trying to figure out new one.
We can see a lot of flustration around these days…this will probably dissapear…but someone should be responsible for better categorization of riders in the new ZRS. May be use the w/kg at the begining or something like that but current algorythm is totally broken.
I will use me as example. Strong D rider who would be druing the winter moved to C probably. Since I am a heavy guy it would be hard for me in C but I expected this.
Currently my racing score was over 400 which placed me into races with B and C riders. Seems wrong since I am a D cat…right…Made 2 races this and last week and dropped to 394…in both races I was dropped from the pack in first 5-6minutes…and then crusing the rest of the race alone…I will have to do like 5-6 races like this to be dropped to lower category…
Where is my motivation to do this? My motivation is to give it up and instead of racing do some specific training.
Someone from Zwift should be fired for this…this looks like prepared during one month…I do not believe that someone worked on it for a year…if someone did than he/they probably do not understand what they are doing.
Does not matter what my racing score is…20min 2,7w/kg can never beat 4 w/kg…this is simple.
Then we can make it as in IRL and cancle categories…or do it based on age…result will be the same.
Wake up guys…do not force people to drop or increase their racing score so significantly by themselves…because this people will be flustrated and they will not take part in the races anymore.
4 Likes
The way you describe it definitely sounds like it’s working to me:
- D rider used to dominate and knows it
- Now placed with more challenging opponents from the start
I only see one aspect of the system that needs work but it’s more related to motivation of the rider. They did not include anything supporting that in the ZRS.
3 Likes
No problem to be in the races with more challenging opponents. But in old D there were more people like me…someone better in sprint finish…someone better in climbs…someone better in punchy races…but we were somehow on the same/similar w/kg etc.
Right now I am placed into environment where I am not competitive at all. Dropped in first 5 min of the race and it must be flat…once there is even a small climb I am out immediatelly. Motivation will not help me to improve so much…
I understand your point but this is simply too much to race with high C riders and B riders…You have to admit that this is boolshit…categorization with low C or middle C riders would be acceptable but B riders…come on…
I don’t know mate. The thing is, those B riders may have been dropped every race in B CE and now have a chance.
I do believe the ZRScores need time to settle so the riders around you today may not be there in a few races time.
Maybe even the score ranges with more pens or dynamic pens.
The thing just is that there’s a big change and what Zwift didn’t do is prepare anyone for what they might experience now and what to expect.
There are still 5 categories. Who’s in which one has changed. I’m still in the upper end of the 2nd cat (B->665). I’ve always been there and in all my races I’ve seen riders dropped from the start, first hill, 2nd hill etc.
I still complain I can’t race against 4.5 w/kg guys. Because I can’t with 3.9 w/kg. They’re still in B cat.
I don’t think that has changed. Who it happens to has.
1 Like
In a five pen system based on ability, I would have expected to see Petr start off near the top of D. If he continued to get good results like he has done in Category Enforcement D, then he gets an upgrade to C.
The seed score formula is rubbish and the power time durations chosen for it are poor.
2 Likes
Please do not take it offensivelly please…just discussion.
Right now it is obvious that initial settings done by ZWIFT is NOK. And I think that it is stupid idea that I have to spent like 1-2 month of 1 race per week to get to the correct racing score. This is simply an investment which I do not want do becuase I do not see any payback for this investment. Because we do not know what is going to happen at the end of November.
Sometimes it is better to involve community a bit more into this kind of development/decisions and figure out from the crowd what would be the best set-up.
You are mentioning that you can not race with 4,5w/kg guys since you are 3,9w/kg. I fully agree with that. 4,5w/kg guy is 15% stronger than you are…but do you really want to compare my 2,7w/kg with 4w/kg…since this is 48% so 3 times more than in your case. 15% can be improved by better fitness…weight…etc…48% this is something almost impossible (ok…point here…If I would reduce my weight by 30kg…I would be around 3,6w/kg…but for my somatotipe…not possible)…and yes still 5 categories but the population between categories is completely wrong…with w/kg it was quite obvious where you belong to…there are/were weak spots but more investment into this system and tuning would make much more sense than trying to figure out something new…
2 Likes
IIRC your Racing Score at the reset after beta summer testing was 404 (knowing the history of riders like you, Ben and Ty made me curious as to where you placed in new system).
So with some bad results, you can reduce your score to 15% under 404, which would be ~343 and place you at the top of pen D.
Once you are placed in pen D, sign up for a load of races in pen D going forward on Companion app.
Until ZwiftHQ sets up pen restriction when trying to enter the race pen, you will be able to race in pen D for those signups.
By the time your bulk signups have finished, if your score has gone above 350 by placing in the top half of a few of those D races, hopefully ZwiftHQ have tweaked the seed score formula and/or your 30sec/10min power bests of the last 90 days have dropped.
1 Like
Wait until you get closer to the threshold 
.
My initial seed score was towards the top of the new ZRS-C. I did 6 races now and it was:
C => B => C => B => C => B => next one is in C
Neither of the C finishes were very impressive (except maybe the first one which I did not expect to turn out the way it did). I found the races much harder than a normal CE-C race (totally OK!) but still it took only one race to yoyo back to B where it feels like you described.