Yeah. My point is that the race results should not be a second citizen. It could be available as a website as in addition to in the game.
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100% with you there. I’ve said countless times on this very forum that having to go to ZwiftPower “for the real results” is ridiculous. The real results should be the only results. There shouldn’t be one set of in-game results that any serious racer ignores, and a different set of results that people look to for legitimacy.
I’m not saying I like ZwiftPwer as a source of separate results as such, just that I like the functionality it offers. But the results it shows should be the same as those we see in-game.
Even as soon as the results panel pops up, it’s clear if a racer has raced without an HRM, blasted the cat limits etc. Those things don’t need to be worked out later.
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Most of those should be done before the race starts.
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Hi Mark, did you find out if the dev team were willing to share more frequent updates on this? I think a blog post series would be a really great way of engaging with the community. Or maybe a YouTube series of short updates if that format works better (although I think article based makes more sense for this topic!)
Thanks
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Just following up per your note, James.
As you’re likely seeing, Shuji is posting several key updates regularly and we’ll continue to add new information as we have it. This is and will be done in this forum.
Noted your ideas on blog or video updates. Note Wes is on The World of Zwift and does a video set of notes monthly as per our releases. Check him out on those videos.
Mark
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Thanks Mark. I am of course aware of release notes, updates and Wes’ video updates. This was related more specifically to long term development progress of a fit-for-purpose racing system.
I understand the team may not be willing to share any insight or progress, but this type of thing would really help to engage with a somewhat frustrated community (see prior 200 messages).
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in less than 3 weeks time… and this isn’t the only forum thread that talks about racing and cheating.
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@Mark_Cote - maybe it would bring a few more people to the World of Zwift if there was a sticky thread in the Zwift forums to advertise it, updated each time a new episode is released.
I don’t recall seeing anyone mention the World of Zwift before in the forums and I didn’t know it existed.
Yes agreed with this @Mark_Cote in terms of updates / a road map for racing.
I am really hoping that we might see some meaningful development for Zwift racing that covers a lot of what is being discussed in this thread by the time it starts getting towards the next Zwift season in September 2021.
Is that a naive hope or realistic expectation?
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As a new racer, I echo these comments. My experience with racing has been frankly pretty crummy. I kill myself trying to hang on to a group in a cat D race and barely manage to finish in the top half. ZPower then tells me my numbers say i’m a Cat C, so I try to race there. I have NO hope of keeping up at Cat C, get lapped and finish about 4 minutes after the leaders for a 25 minute race. Really wish there were better matchmaking based on fitness levels. Perhaps i’m just stuck in that transition where i’m too strong for cat D and not nearly strong enough for cat C, as the minimums for the categories are basically meaningless.
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@Mark_Cote or @xflintx are you able to shed nay more light on the changes that are hopefully coming to racing on category enforcement or perhaps anything on matchmaking using rankings?
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@Eric_Bubar3940
I am in the same situation, but to be honest - it is the same IRL, someone must be the last one. If the cat limits change, other people are going to have this “problem”.
W/kg categories should be replaced by results based ones, but that cannot change my situation. I have to train harder.
Some race organizers (SZR among others) have started to use low- and high categories. They have one event for each (low/high). That way more people are competitive, which should make for more fun for all. This can only be used in events where it is expected to be many racers in each category.
LOW-END CATEGORIES
(A) 4.0-4.59 W/kg FTP
(B) 3.2-3.59 W/kg FTP
(C) 2.50.2.85 W/kg FTP
(D) Below 1.99W/kg FTP
HIGH-END CATEGORIES
(A+) 4.60 W/kg FTP or higher
(B)+ 3.6 W/kg to 3.99 W/kg FTP
(C+) 2.85 W/kg to 3.19 W/kg FTP
(D+) 2.01-2.49 W/kg FTP
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Let’s be fair. This was door firmly shut, as evidenced by the lack of any follow up response. A one-way dialogue with the community is not in their plans, let alone a 2-way one.
We’ll get it when we get it, and it will be in whatever format they decide. Suck it up.
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It feels like the lack of any development and minimal Zwift support has really hamstrung WTRL for season 3.
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I think more categories makes sense but people always state that just created more cheaters.
I don’t know, I would just like to see an attempt to change/evolve/improve.
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Lack of info is not a closed door, but beyond bi-monthly updates of what’s coming out, it’s a risky move to talk about product in development. We’re actively trying to do less overpromise and underdeliver. As such, we’re communicating what we know we will deliver to you all in a consistent and timely manner.
Mark
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Nothing specific other than there is work ongoing in this area. While the ranking system and rules can be trivial and algorithmic, this work is intertwined in all Zwift systems, so it’s a complex beast to build. I can tell you all that the product team reads this forum and takes in to account your concepts and ideas. Thanks for bringing 'em on the daily.
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With all due respect, we are not asking for you to share your product roadmap and dates, to then hold you to them. The issue you have with that is Eric in interviews - only in December he said that new roads were being released every 2 months (there has been one tiny addition since France, 12 months ago).
We are suggesting that there is an opportunity to work with the community closer ‘as’ you are developing a ‘system’. Explaining what you are trying to achieve, sharing the progress in a blog format, reaching out to the community for suggestions. Engaging them. This will help improve the frankly horrendous view vast swathes of the community have towards ZHQ in terms of progress, communication and quality.
This is such a Zwift sentence, I wonder if they teach it as part of the induction. Really disappointing.
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I fully understand why Zwift is careful not to say too much about work in progress. As you mentioned, they have had some incidents that ended up creating false promises. That is not desirable for anyone.
I would like Zwift to see their community as a resource and use it for input and verification of work in design. That way we would e.g. have gotten the “Save & Exit” button from the start 
The way this is normally done is by having a group of beta testers. I would think that Zwift could have used this forum to ask for input for features that are in the backlog. That would give a lot of valuable input before even starting the development.
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