My son has been riding Zwift for a few years. Last year he started racing and had a great time.
At about 31 kg and FTP around 145 W (4.7 w/kg) the watt-floor put him right on the border of D/C categories. He did most of his races in C. In flat races, particularly those with a flat finish, he stood no chance - maximum power of less than 300 W isn’t going to win any sprints. In a race with flat sections, if he paid attention and kept in the thick of the pack he could stay with the group. Rollers were difficult - he had to work HARDER on the downhills to stay with the group than he did on the uphills. His recovery came on the climbs.
This seems a bit backwards but it’s for two reasons:
His very light weight. Gravity isn’t pulling him down the hills as strongly as he’d like.
Zwift’s reduced draft compared to real life.
So, reduced gravitational pull and increased aerodynamic drag. I figured the watt-floor was put in place to help compensate.
This year ZRS put him in C. But “C” is different and with ZRS there is no watt-floor. Now he’s competing against full sized humans with 5/10/20 minute power/weight in the same range as his.
Rollers are the hardest. He did one such race. Up each climb the lead pack would put out ~4.5 w/kg and he worked to stay with them. The problem was that on the downhills the lead pack could mostly drop their power to 2.0 - 2.5 w/kg while the kid had to maintain 4.5 w/kg to keep up. He got no breaks.
He stuck with it, worked really hard and almost kept in touch with the leaders. But not having any chance for recovery anywhere in the race was no fun. Not a good experience and he has no interest in doing any more races.
Last year there was rightful discussion of the watt-floor. I would have to say that even my son would agree that the watt-floors were set too high. According to the rules he could have raced in D for most of the season.
Almost all racers I talked with were incredibly supportive of getting the kids involved and felt a rule that allowed super-tiny-humans to compete was worthy and good. I hope that something can be worked in to ZRS to let the kids compete again.
If the goal is a better experience, could try raising his game weight to somewhere he feels he’s riding with more other Zwifters of closer weights. Eg. raise game weight to 55kg and stay there until his IRL body catches up to this value. He’ll be riding though in a cat or 2 lower (D or E depending on the event), but may enjoy it more.
I’m glad your son is racing on Zwift but I’m not sure what the best answer is.
I don’t think a 31 kg child is really going to best serious cyclists.
We have a community Fondo road race and the kids are always way way behind all the serious adults and most of the less fit adults still finish ahead of the kids on the 12 and 25 mile courses that are pretty flat.
The success your son enjoyed was not real.
I want to see kids on Zwift but I question the value of a system that has a child beat an adult.
Well, that’s exactly the problem… I’m going to change the language here because I don’t want to imply that anyone who might get bested by a kid is not a serious cyclist… So let’s just say “A” cat cyclists. And no, he won’t beat “A” cat cyclists. The problem is that ZRS is pitting him against “A” cat cyclists because of his high power/weight ratio.
I think that I should point out that these super tiny humans power/weight ratios can be incredible. Their performances up a hill, in Zwift or in the real world, are completely legitimate. As a not-so-serious adult cyclist I can attest that they leave me in the dust when the trail goes up.
Yep, welcome to the outside of the bell curve with Zwift when it comes to weights and height; the physics get really strange once you enter these zones.
I agree, either up the weight; or consider upping the height as well; one will help against gravity and bring out of the wonky w/kg zone, adding height will generally just slow them down… period.
But since descents will be a struggle, maybe upping the weight first would be a correct move.
Also for the record; a front pack of racers, racing… and expecting “rest,” well… I can probably assure you that lead pack likely wasn’t getting much/any rest either
ZRS Should lower itself (after 90 days), after bumping the weight up; as it is “w/kg” (not exactly, but weight is involved) based.
It is, but I will guess back in CE, that there have been those who add a bit of weight in order to drop from the bottom of one category so they can be at the top of the next lower. In this instance, I took the original problem at face value and tried to get back to a situation that works for the lad. Zwift will never work properly for 30-ish kg riders.
I get it what your advice was for the father of a lil guy. It’s that there are many people trying real hard to play by the rules regardless of cat. They care I’m sure of that is my point.
Wouldn’t this issue being discussed be similar in IRL.
I’ve had a few of the kids from my old club that I rode with a few times outside and they also had to work to catch me downhill even though I’m not the heaviest.
Maybe more races are needed that have long climbs which might give the very light young riders a chance to work to their strengths.
I don’t think raising his weight will be that great - and wonder if the kid will feel that happy to do that.
It gets back to the reality of the system.
There are un supported trainers for which Zwift does not have a Z Power curve and they have to use a generic power curve that caps the power to a reasonable but not accurate level.
I have argued for years, that these are essentially unsupported riders.
They should not alter their wt or Ht.
There should be a built in power limit for these individuals or they should just be told they will be assigned the lowest wt and Ht that Zwift has data for.
I don’t know how slow it will affect them but these light weight riders are clearly going way too fast on Zwift and these individuals are not going this fast IRL.
Is anyone actually taking serious Zone 3-4-5 + rides with a 31 kg rider?
Let say the little human race guy on zwift that he know in the real world, when he go outside get beat up, going for Kom , how is that little human going to feel , it like set the little human up for failing not good.
I said, I don’t know the best answer.
I want the kids on their bikes and I want them on Zwift and I want them to Race on Zwift.
But, I think some degree of realism (and I know we are talking Zwift) needs to be present.
In basketball, we have 5th grade teams, high school, college and professional.
Each is important and each tries to encourage the younger or lower levels but they don’t lower the goal.
Zwift would do well to give this some thought.
The numbers for participation for the kids is small and I hate to lose even 1.
Also, the push to more expensive hardware will make it difficult for families to have multiple setups.
They need to continue to give attention to basic and entry level set ups.
