The power required by folks would be way more variable on hilly courses which is why people in general do not like this.
That’s the whole idea, give them some punchy riding too. 
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Constance was on I think Volcano Flat route the other day and that draft effect I could demonstrate well by sitting in front of the Robopacer and surging the pace at key areas.
Constance would zoom forward quickly and everyone else would be 2-3sec dropped and having to do big surges to catch up again. I didn’t do that for too long but was able to do that enough that it wasn’t just “imagination” or a random thing.
100% my preference.
Scottlands longest route is my current favourite for a nice mix of intensities.
Also please go up longer hills…
The part I don’t get is why this is so complicated for Zwift. Just remove all pack dynamics from the pacer and let them run. Its frustrating, and I just dont enjoy the C pacers anymore due to unpredictability.
It seems as though most of the people commenting on this don’t actually ride outside in the real world in groups. I could be wrong, but that’s the impression that I’m getting. The point that everybody is missing is that Zwift simulates the real world. Out in the real world, I could be a “Robo pacer“ by keeping a consistent power. If somebody or multiple people get in front of me, I’m going to go faster at that consistent power. If everybody gets behind me, I’ll still maintain that consistent power, but we will be going slower. I don’t understand what people aren’t getting about this. Aroma pacer simply maintains a constant power. They will put out up to 10% more power uphills, just like everybody does in their real world in groups and they will put out up to 20% lower going downhill, just like everybody does in real world groups. all the drafting effect in Zwift is exactly as it happens in the real world, Robo pacer or other swifter. Same thing.
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On the contrary, in my real world experience, group rides are organised by Pace, not Power. I’ve yet to hear or see anyone organise a ride by saying it’s going to be at X watts.
In case it’s not clear, we have Robo Pacers / Pace Partners
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So are you suggesting that in your real world experience, your group rides maintain the same pace, whether you’re going uphill, flat or downhill? The answer is of course not. Pace is determined by effort, i.e. watts/kilo. It’s simple to say a group will average a certain speed range but the underlying factor determining the speed range is the watts/kilo of the participating riders.
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The difference in Zwift is that you have no steering, brakes or crashes in Zwift. Things that are common place in sim-racing and could be in Zwift with the right hardware.
Zwift would be more interesting and realistic if it had these - speeds would be reduced, no need for sticky-draft mechanisms and racing would be more challenging and not simply who has most power or use the pace-dynamics to their advantage. While you are fatigued you’d also need to be watching your position otherwise you might crash.
Group riding would be more realistic, but obviously you’d get some people having fun crashing the entire bunch out all the time.
That is also very unlike the real world - if you remember it was deliberately made so you can’t roll in the draft as you do IRL, otherwise you’d just roll too easily. I cannot find the comment right at the moment but it was quoted on this forum here that it was a deliberate choice to make you put effort in. In big groups outside I can roll along with almost no power at all at times, while in Zwift if I did that I’d have the autobraking kick-in. Even if I did go and dig up that quote (which was referring to one of the Zwift people) it wouldn’t count for much.
When I’m leading a group outside - particularly one with less fit riders, I don’t increase the pace going uphill, I will stay at a set level otherwise they are going to be dropped then I have to stop somewhere and wait for them to catch up or do a U-turn to go back and get them or they get exhausted and go home earlier, defeating the point. I prefer to keep everyone together. The Zwift increase in effort up every hill doesn’t go down well IRL, folks get annoyed quickly or they don’t come back next time.
When it comes to riders joining IRL groups and pushing the pace all the time off the front, it has been suggested by some quite experienced riders/racers that it’s because these people lack group riding experience and are perhaps scared of being in a bunch.
That’s a real problem sometimes when people come from something like Zwift or elsewhere with a decent engine but have very little experience (or none) riding outside in groups (or worse, racing). That’s when accidents do happen and sometimes bad ones. Although that person has the power, they are going to be riding at moderate speed to start with and getting used to holding lines, following wheels and all the other necessary skills for their safety and that of others.
Now you’re getting it. That wasn’t so hard eh?
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Unfortunately, it’s clear that you are not getting it. Watts per kilogram is the determining factor in what determines average pace in a ride. But it’s often just pace that’s advertised in real world rides because most people can’t understand watts/kg, clearly yourself included, and additionally, many people do not have power meters. Pace varies dramatically, depending on terrain. Pace also varies dramatically, based upon the number of participants. Also note that every Robo pacer has what the average watts per kilogram will be, in addition to the average speed. The watts per kilogram remains consistent with the average speed varies based upon the course and it’s corresponding elevation gain.
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This whole thread was about draft effect which many people don’t understand because they don’t ride out in the real world. Zwift has done an excellent job in mimicking real world situations, with some compromises because the whole point of indoor training is for it to be a workout so if they made it so you could just stop peddling for miles on end in a peloton going slightly downhill, it would make no sense to do so. Otherwise, Roa Pacers keep a consistent watts per kilogram. With a little bit of variation, just like in the real world. And whoever said they don’t put out more power going uphill, and less downhill, I don’t believe you. You clearly don’t have a power meter on your outdoor bike then.
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Draft effect in Zwift is NOT like it is in real life.
I’ve done enough IRL riding in groups just in the last month alone to know that. IRL in the draft even on a flat road I roll very easily, in Zwift you do not, you let off the power even for a short time and autobraking kicks in and slows you down.
Also you need to maintain much higher continuous power than IRL when in a Zwift group. This was deliberately done so you couldn’t roll as in real life bunches.
It doesn’t feel the same at all, not even remotely.
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This is my thought exactly.
In the real world (mainly in no drop rides) a good ride leader tries to maintain a relatively consistent ride for everyone. With adjustments for hills etc hitting an average pace over a ride.
If my real world ride leader hopped into the draft of a spicy group and took off (at the same effort for them) they aren’t a great ride leader.
In Zwift the pace partners are very easily influenced by a faster group pulling them along. This mainly happens in D and low C groups with large groups. I dont see it as much in coco and faster group. It just results in unpredictability when your aiming for a specific pace for the days ride.
@Benjamin_Berlin Many of us understand W/kg, real vs zwift pack dynamics, and how group rides work. We just want something with a more predictable experience in zwift.
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