The 'FENCE' and kicking off riders

Feedback
21

however why give someone else the right to kick a rider out of the game for riding ahead? IRL if you ride ahead so what you ride ahead, your choice - you choose no draft.

when rider has rode past the fence for whatever reason, sprint, climb, descent, then the timer starts, then rider is kicked for what? they aren’t hurting the group, the group can still get their draft, yet as someone who has ‘paid’ for the experience like everyone else what gives others the right to kick them off?

It can be used as a form of bullying as I have experienced if you mention this on group rides, over zealous leaders kick you!

Just creates a negative experience. Note: on cyclingnation rides they don’t use the kick feature because they feel its not fair play to simply penalize a rider for riding off the front flyer.

Such a crap feature, I’m sure most riders stay behind fence, if there’s a few flyers so what, why kick them? No wonder the rider numbers are declining on zwift with these mediocre feature still present.

22

You’re not kicked out of the game. You just keep doing your ride without disturbing the event. Carry on as you were.

This is incorrect, and that’s why the fence exists. Flyers disrupt the group event by raising the pace and breaking up the group.

Ride leaders are human and it’s true sometimes they don’t manage the fence well. Perhaps sometimes they are just sick of flyers disrupting their rides and don’t feel tolerant about it. This isn’t McDonalds and you’re not going to get the same experience from every volunteer ride leader. You have to find the ones you like and come back to their rides. There are plenty of unfenced options, and plenty of good ride leaders who are careful about managing the fence.

You’re forgetting about the all riders who want the fence and were unhappy with exploding group rides before it existed. You and I have no visibility into how that affects subscriptions.

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Good answers, not really relevant as question was to James_Zwift - ZwiftStaff]

however why give someone else the right to kick a rider out of the game for riding ahead? IRL if you ride ahead so what you ride ahead, your choice - you choose no draft.

You’re not kicked out of the game. You just keep doing your ride without disturbing the event. Carry on as you were.

Still kicked by leader so as mentioned why should Zwift give one rider the right to kick the other rider out? As mentioned in real world no biggie, you’d ride ahead with no draft, yet we have power hungry leaders using this to punish riders.

when rider has rode past the fence for whatever reason, sprint, climb, descent, then the timer starts, then rider is kicked for what? they aren’t hurting the group

This is incorrect, and that’s why the fence exists. Flyers disrupt the group event by raising the pace and breaking up the group.

What? A few flyers, 10-15??? won’t effect draft so what it comes down to is the leader using the kick to punish riders who may have sprinted, climbed quicker, heavy descender for whatever reason, like I said they’re paying for the zwift experience as well, giving leader right to kick is wrong, form of bullying in some cases.

over zealous leaders kick you!

Ride leaders are human and it’s true sometimes they don’t manage the fence well. Perhaps sometimes they are just sick of flyers disrupting their rides and don’t feel tolerant about it. This isn’t McDonalds and you’re not going to get the same experience from every volunteer ride leader. You have to find the ones you like and come back to their rides. There are plenty of unfenced options, and plenty of good ride leaders who are careful about managing the fence.

Thats right ride leaders are human and the fence can be managed poorly or ride leader don’t lead, they sit at the rear of the group yelling directions … no leadership, and of course the fence is way too close to group. Then this results in riders being kicked by incompetent leader.

No wonder the rider numbers are declining on zwift with these mediocre feature still present.

You’re forgetting about the all riders who want the fence and were unhappy with exploding group rides before it existed. You and I have no visibility into how that affects subscriptions.

Your assuming all riders want the fence, probably most do and if managed correctly I got no problem with it, the issue is kicking riders from the game, paid riders, what gives leader that right? why would zwift allow this to be the case? Results in a negative experience, of course we could just move onto another platform, but good to call out this incompetent situation with leaders kicking riders.

24

You have the option ride behind the fence with the ride leader or go do your own thing.

Once you are past the fence your intentions are clear and that you want to do your own thing, good then do your own thing. No hard feelings you didn’t like the pace of the ride and want to go faster go have fun.

Now the rest of the people that want to ride with the leader can carry on.

I have not seen a ride leader that is “power hungry” and enjoy kicking riders for most of them it is about a service to the community and making the ride fun.

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25

As has been explained multiple times in this thread. Fliers aren’t kicked because they effect the draft. The fence is used to kick fliers because many newer riders don’t realize the fliers aren’t the group they should be with. So they struggle to hold on then complain that the group ride was above pace.

And ride leaders can’t specifically kick a single rider out. Only you (the rider) can get yourself kicked off the ride by passing a fence for more than 60 seconds.

I’m not sure what IRL group rides you attend but any one I’ve attended would not tolerate someone who just goes off the front. They definitely wouldn’t be asked back next time.

And when you join a group ride put on by a club you are joining their ride they are hosting. So your point about giving them the right to kick you off Zwift doesn’t apply. 1) you aren’t kicked off Zwift, just out of the group ride. And 2) the group is hosting the ride so you are expected to abide by the rules they have set up for that ride. If there’s a kicking fence it’s implied that if you breach the fence for my than 60 seconds you will be kicked from the group ride. You agreed to that by joining their group ride.

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This happens when the group is riding on the fence and not with the leader, the leader end up alone holding the pace as described in the race directions.
A ride leader is bound to a set pace and a good leader will keep that pace.

So are all the other riders that joined the group they want a good group ride at a set pace.

Why do you still want to be part of the group if you ride off the front?

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For clarity, I don’t run Zwift :joy: I am a very small cog that creates events for a living.

This generally has a really bad impact on a group ride, more so than IRL. It stretches out the group, and less inexperienced riders will be drawn towards the front of the group, or into the breakaway and cause these riders to be upset when the ride isn’t at the pace they expected. As Paul said, they’re not kicked out the game.

Good for them.

The people riding off the front causes the negative experience and the fence is designed to encourage them to follow the ride rules.

Just because you think it’s a crap feature, doesn’t detract away from the fact that this was heavily requested by event organisers and those who want to ride in an event and trust that it will be run at the level they expect it to.

I really don’t have anything further to add to this thread other than audible eyerolls.

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good on you. Now address the issue of leaders kicking off riders, that’s not right in real world wouldn’t happen and as said; we’re all paying for the experience, yet why should one rider (leader) kick others from the game?

Issue isn’t the fence (although plenty of plonker leaders leading from the rear- but that’s life), issue is the power to kick riders, its used as a instrument, a kind of bullying. They shouldn’t’ be allowed to do this.

This is feedback, whether you agree or not its important to look at this from another perspective - audible eyerolling feedback for you.

29

When I join a group ride with an advertised pace, that’s the pace I expect to ride at and I expect everyone else to do the same - otherwise why are they on this ride? I really fail to see why you’d join a group ride and not ride with the group. This applies both on Zwift and IRL. There are plenty of other group rides - and other options - on Zwift if you don’t like those that have a fence and a kick, just go find them.

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How many group rides (IRL or virtual) have you led? (And how much did you get paid for the experience?)

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i have definitely been yelled at for doing reckless stuff in an IRL ride as a teenager

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If you want to play in the group ride event, you play by the rules, by riding at the advertised pace.

Want to go quicker? Well if the zap fence in on, off you go away from the group ride, it’s that simple.

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33

Couldn’t have put it better

34

I think you need to sweep a few rides mate,
you’ll soon appreciate why the ffence exists and how it only takes a handful of flyers to ruin a group ride for everyone else.
Being off the front is easy compared to sweeping, even sweeping D rides it’s easy to hit B or even A grade numbers.
Kicking a handful of selfish riders saves the group experience.

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35

I would say that if a ride is set up to kick riders, that its published wkg range should be narrow. From time to time you can come across listings with a greater than .5 wkg spread in the pace guidance. That can be a large difference in expectations, especially when it’s in the sub 2.0 area.

For example, how is this Event id# 3706999 going to manage kicking over it’s 100km length?

36

You keep mentioning this, but you are completely wrong. Leaders can’t kick a specific person from a ride. Only you can kick yourself out by not riding with the group. You seem to have a severe misunderstanding of how the fence works and why it is available for ride leaders.

This thread is going no where and should be closed now. You’ve made your point, and I think most people disagree with you.

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37

I don’t assume that. I assume that people who chafe at the fence will choose unfenced rides; those who like the group to stay together at a predictable pace will choose fenced rides. There are very popular group rides both with and without fences. I enjoy both styles, though I almost never see the fence in fenced rides because I don’t ride ahead. In a group ride I’m either helping form a blob around the leader, or hanging around the back of the group filling gaps so people can have more draft to reach the group, or sweeping people who fell off the back. If the pace is too low I pick a different bike to make it harder.

Because the leader owns the ride. A community ride event is not operated by Zwift. Group rides are a free extra thing you have access to with your subscription. You’re not entitled to join a group ride and do whatever you want. You are entitled to pick the rides that you enjoy - unfenced if you prefer that. Zwift gives ride leaders wide latitude to run their rides as they wish. The group rides are operated by volunteers.

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38

As it’s disrespectful to the leaders and organisers of events, why doesn’t the creators of zwift make it such that those riding in front of the fence have to produce 2w/kg to stay ahead of the group.

I do realise that we have a “zappy” fence, but not all organisers like to use this facility.

Just a thought,

39

The zappy fence works pretty well or even the non zappy fence that i use it a pretty good visual barrier that keeps the majority of riders where they should be.

They could do all sorts like increase resistance, teleport them to the back but it’s probably not worth the dev time to code such changes. I’m not sure the issue is really that big to merit the work over all the other things zwift has going on.

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40

I’d agree with some enforcement. There are the morons who go ahead for the sake of finishing first in the rankings which makes no sense in a group ride. Go race instead.