What I truly don’t understand is why the XP system wasn’t initially changed to (a) make the initial leveling system make more sense (by keeping the same total XP for the levels on offer at the time, but smooth the progression so that the XP needed for the different levels didn’t have a ‘sawtooth’ pattern), and then just add the new levels on top of that, again with an XP progression that made sense. There was truly no need to change the XP for the top level (and especially not to lower it).
Why havent you thought of a way to get rid of all the banked xp people still have. Now that will keep haunting you forever and now was the time to just use it all. You cant make another big change next year …
The system we had now wasnt too bad and could have gone on for a few months if you needed more time to come up with a solution for the banked xp.
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Could you please let people move to the levels they have earned? It’s not at all satisfying to have to accumulate extra XP to get to a level you should already be at. Or if you are not willing to do this, please tell us why.
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You can start by actually explaining the apparently-reasonless decision to implement things the way it’s been done, primarily with trying to sneak it in without an announcement.
I think the XP scaling change is a good move albeit one that should’ve been done initially but better late than never. But keeping people where they are with convoluted acceleration schemes is ridiculous instead of just moving people to where they should be. I’m level 74 and should be 87-88 by XP. Just move me there, it would be less confusing than what you’ve come up with.
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This one falls on deaf ears. I’m Level 81 and have 886,000 XP. Once again the closer I get the farther away I am from catching up.
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What is hard to understand is why you feel the need to have these convoluted banked XP schemes in the first place, let alone the time you reset everyone back to 500,000XP (who was above that). If a change needs lengthy explanation, it probably shouldn’t have been done.
Why didn’t your product team just add more levels beyond 50 up to say 200 and put people directly at whatever level the amount of XP they had earned would give them?
No, instead there were all these complex, silly banking systems with different people getting different schemes and the result is a mess with users upset at Zwift and fighting among each other because of the perceived “haves” and “have nots”.
You lost me. I was a very active Zwift user and used to ride daily, not anymore. I now ride daily on Fulgaz.
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This probably would have been the least controversial thing to do. I have some sense they feel they need the levels to specifically end at 100 for some reason.
Banked XP is just complicated, and causes frustration. I don’t see a reason it really needs to be a part of a re-vamped XP system.
(and by that I mean, you should be put at the level your XP would suggest you should be at)
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Thanks.
Now, please make things simple and clear once and for all.
Move us to the level we should be at according to our XP and get rid of banked XP.
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Dear @Mark_Cote
Thank you for your post and your apology.
However, you say you’ve been reading our feedback, but why have you ignored the large amount of Zwifters who have been asking to simply be placed on the level that their XP has earned them, and to do away with the banked XP nonsense?
Apparently you want to make a whole bunch of Zwifters feel penalised for the XP that they’ve historically earned compared to newer Zwifters who don’t have this forced handicap.
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+1 for getting rid of banked XP and just paying it out to those who have earned it (and I have none).
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Please may I request that Level100 remains forever as the top level and that a brand new prestige scheme covers XP issues.
IMO unless you know how you are going to please everyone each time you introduce new levels based on XP you are going to have exactly this public outcry at each new levels introduction. A maximum level of 100 is certainly enough to “engage Zwifters early in their careers”.
With your prestige scheme you can introduce a new system with new rules, covering XP, and move everybody immediately to their rightful prestige position.
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Please do it like this. Don’t move the goalposts again.
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Great comments and thoughts all around. Thanks for the quick feedback all.
Mark
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Can you do better by explaining why you tried to hide the change in the first place after ZHQ people said it was being suspended indefinitely?
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Thanks for chiming in, @Mark_Cote.
Reading feedback and listening to my own Zwifting heart, it’s clear Zwift’s level system still isn’t “finished.” So I propose the following system/solution that I think would satisfy people best, be easy for Zwift to implement, all while remaining simple and Zwifty.
It’s a three-part solution:
- Roll out a prestige system (I remember the great Wes Salmon talking about doing this, in pre-Covid days of yore). 100 is the top level, but each time you finish 100 you get a star next to your name or something like that. Something visible for all to see. Something that is truly prestigious.
- Immediately place everyone at the proper level for their career XP, and give them all their unlocks up to that level.
- Don’t worry about adding unlocks for levels completed once you’ve done all 100 the first time. The unlock you’re chasing is that prestige star. It’s a big one.
Optional 4th idea: just for cleanliness, rejigger the XP curve once more so level 100 happens at 1 million XP (it’s currently 807,000 XP). That’s nice and clean and memorable. Every 1 million XP gets you another prestige star.
Implementing this would do away with any and all acceleration/banking confusion while giving everyone access to levels and unlocks they’ve actually earned. It also gives everyone something to chase, forever!
The only downside is: Zwift would need to build a prestige system for it to work. So there’s actual work involved on Zwift’s side to make it all happen.
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Hi Eric - that’s exactly what I was thinking and would post here. Thanks for your suggestions, this is certainly the right way for Zwift.
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I’m in pretty much the same position as you, Zwifting since late 2016. Due to my health, I’m not able to exercise as much as many, but I do what I am able.
I have accumulated much more XP than my current level. This seems inequitable. Fairness and trust are core to my value system, and these have really not been addressed by the latest update by Mark Cote.
I echo much of what Eric S says, especially about the removal of banked XP, and making the levelling system simple and transparent to all.
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I think it’s more that every level “needs” a reward. If it wasn’t for the items, there’d be absolutely no reason not to have them just count up and up and up.
But if that is the reason, I think it’s ill-founded. Many Zwifters won’t care about getting something (because we’ve all got too many socks and jerseys etc. we’ll never wear).
Instead, they could focus on producing a few really great items for milestone levels. If people got “fire socks”, “confetti socks” or similar at level 75, 100, 125, 150 etc. it would still engage people in the levelling process, and those things would still feel rewarding to get and show off. But it’s much less effort to come up with 10 cool items that cover 250 levels than it is to come up with 250 mostly meh ones.
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May I suggest getting rid of the 100 level limit and just have a simple 12000XP per level increase after level 100. 12000 is enough that people won’t level up too fast but not too excessive that it takes too long.
And put some random unlocks in place at various points along the way (such as 125, 150, 175, 200, 250, etc. There would be no upper level limit.
I didn’t really care about unlocks at every level because by the time you are at level 100 you already have heaps of jerseys, useless socks and gloves that mostly never get used.
No prestige systems, nothing else, just very simple. I might not have a fancy Zwift website but I’ve done product owner duties for long enough to know to avoid controversial changes. If it needs explaining in a lengthy way, it’s probably not good.
Hey, Fancy Zwift Website Guy Here,
I’m not against the idea of higher levels in any major way. I just prefer the idea of a prestige system to endless levels, because I like the thought of veteran riders having a star next to their name or maybe on their kit or bike in game in a way that shows others this person knows Zwift. I think there’s value in that. I think it would make the community interactions richer if you could easily spot riders who’ve been around a while.
That said, I think we both agree that having more levels above 100, even if there aren’t any unlocks, is better than the current system.
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