The pack dynamics they landed on for PD4 allows for more churn than it did in the earlier variations, but I still think it’s a bit tougher to move up the pack than it was in PD3. People spending time trying to move up the pack might be a reason for things feeling more difficult still even with the muted PD4 implementation. The power swings are probably bigger the more watts the pace partner is putting out I would think.
Can’t lighter riders drop down to another pacer?
Obvs at D that would be a problem. But if someone was riding with an A bot, and things changed and it’s harder to keep the pace now, won’t a B bot work instead? There might be a ‘gap’ for some people, I’d guess. But if a given bot is holding too fast of a pace, and there are slower bots…isn’t that a solution?
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Generally speaking I would argue the gaps are unfortunately just too large.
As an example; going from Coco to Maria is a massive 40w difference for me personally. (170w to 130w)
Which, if Coco is at the faster pace (for whatever reason)… That’s a Z3 to Z1 ride for me.
And fun fact…
Now that Gravel and MTBs are so much faster on asphalt than they used to be, it means that is no longer a solution as it was just before that recent Crr change patch.
Great addition 
I know I’ve argued this before, the whole idea that the RP’s aren’t designed to be do-it-alls, and will continue to state that point.
There are definite times though that it more or less just feels like a shame because they are certainly a more integral / huge portion of Zwift’s daily ridership.
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That’s reasonable, and that’s a big watt difference. Does it help that there are multiple versions? Typically what I see is at least one version of each bot with a smaller crowd. But that’s only at the times I’m looking.
Not actually sure; I guess it depends on how hilly of a ride someone wants to deal with; and say adjust their trainer difficulty every day (which I can’t imagine anyone would even want to consider doing; which doesn’t really solve anything, as the RPs now push on climbs).
If I didn’t state it here, but perhaps on that other thread, I think the reality is all of the speed of the RPs really depends on luck of the draw; the variance of how many folks are on and riding with them, and how steady that is each day of the week, week by week; which… might not be steady at all (or it could be incredibly stead! again, having access to that data would probably help us to some resolve).
Personally however, I still think the best offering Zwift can give us is a robo pacer we can set ourselves as a workout mode using the ghost function currently built in, and potentially use workout bias to adjust their speed which would be… quite clever.
Just then a question of… is that something enough folks would want; their own unique ghost RP, or is the whole point just to be with a giant group of folks.
It’s also affected by certain folk with a certain colour of team jersey going “let’s do 4.0 to drag the group along faster” (yesterday, Yumi group)…
If they want to do 4.0w/kg there is Genie group and Constance.
I happened to be caught in that Yumi bunch in my workout (4.0w+) but U-turned away to avoid that.
Individual RP bots for each person wouldn’t be too popular because they would be slower than a big group. The whole entire point some people use the RP groups (especially big ones on Tempus) is to chase maximum virtual kilometres with minimum effort.
Couple of ideas.
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Maybe the pacers should be on tt bikes so the group leaders do not pull them along.
This has previously been suggested. -
To the OP, just ride one class lower than usual.
If you’re C, then ride D.
I really like that there are multiple bots in each class, one higher and one lower.
I will jump in with a fast bot and hold on as long as possible then teleport to another to recover then back to the fast one and try to hold on a little longer.
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This is a worthwhile idea. It will have a few effects:
- The groups will go a little slower
- the pace pushers (or flyers) will not like zooming away from the group and will join a faster robopacer group, which won’t be going too fast for them.
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65kg is still quite heaving for most female zwifters…
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The pace bots are on Tron bikes, but essentially, this is a virtual world with virtual physics anyway - so they can be on Tron bikes but with TT bike dynamics. The aesthetics can be maintained for the looks, but fairer on the pack dynamics to stick to a set pacing.
I like that the bots are irrespective of gender (anyone can ride with them, and I like the banter of the different groups), but maybe a solution would be either gender(!*) or weight bracketed pace bots - eg “Women only C pacer” or “45-65kg Cat C pacer”. It would also help juniors coming into the sport too.
*I don’t want to stir the pot on gender! I’ve seen enough negativity, debates and arguments trying to boil a massively complex subject into a half sentence in the Zwift app messaging chat.
The weight brackets would help a lot with pacing.
Give lighter folks options to ride with groups that reflect their weight and power level would be great. I’d certainly prefer riding with a 60kg bot with w/kg closer to my own.
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