Before PD2, with the original “sticky draft” method Zwift used to slow down groups, dropping a wheel with your teammates ahead was a common tactic. It’s just come back now that Zwift have essentially re-introduced sticky draft. (Yes, it’s different, but very similar to the user, other than I think it DOESN’T slow you down if you are putting out enough watts, where the original did.)
It does seem that sticky draft is back.
I’m certainly yelling at the avatars to get out of the way more.
I was second wheel in a recent TdZ event doing 3.5w/kg while the person in front was doing 2.5w/kg and I wasn’t able to move to the front. Eventually when I did get in front I felt my speed went up and we could finally start to close the gap to the group in front.
I know that for a while Zwift has been using wasting Watts of riders to avoid high pack speeds (in the same event I was able to stay in the group doing 1w/kg while everyone around me was doing 2.5w/kg on a downhill section. Lots of Watts going to waste there).
But I think with PD5 this wasted Watts is making it difficult for people being able to move to the front of the pack when they are doing more Watts than the rider at the front of the group.
It seems if you are doing significantly more Watts then you will move to the front (I’ve blown through packs after sprinting to get back because someone couldn’t hold a wheel and I got sticky drafted off the back of the pack), but it seems a difference of 1 W/kg is not enough to overcome the wasting Watts algorithm.
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I’ve been seeing a lot more getting stuck not passing with just one other rider and it seems to average about .3 more to successfully pass a single person.
Sure would be nice if someone from ZHQ could explain what’s going on with all of this.
What are these numbers in absolute watts? If it’s flat weight doesn’t matter and w/kg is not meaningful.
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Nice getting pushed out of the group unable to get back in. Before this I was getting bounced around in the pack so much it almost made me nauseous.
Large groups behave like people in a charity ride who have no idea how to ride in a group. Small groups look like triathletes or mountain bikers trying to run a pace line.
And @Jon I see you’ve been doing some TdZ rides but you really should do some pace partner rides. Regularly ending up way ahead of the bot doing equal or lesser power, and often end up way behind and dropping further doing more power than the bot. Pace partner rides are effectively broken if your goal is to get a steady effort in, even on flat routes.
Riding with coco on the big ring coming up the jungle the bot is getting stuck behind slow people and I’m dropping Coco doing less power because I’m in front of the group
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That actually sounds like the desired goal for racing right?
Make someone at the front more easily able to ride away and make the bunch at the back have a harder time to chase?
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Sounds really annoying to get stuck in a group and having someone riding away at .3-.5wkg less. Or forced out of a group unable to get back in the draft even with steering. Maybe if @Jon could explain what his intent is we’d know, but as he said we’re not smart enough to be told what’s going on because we’ll just hallucinate things. Is the intent to have the packs look like a bunch of overweight dentists who ride outside twice a year and just got a new road bike for their 8-hour charity century?
Even though we know his game better than he does. Almost 11 years to get to level 40 is impressive tbh.
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So far for me I notice that if I get pushed out to the middle of the road it seems to let me back in after a few seconds, so for me I don’t think it’s a material difference in average power: Did an hour with Yumi just now and my average power was in-line with what it normally is with Yumi, but it did seem I was pushed out to the middle a few times. Not sure if that’s PD5, or something else. I wasn’t using steering at the time.
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Exactly Michael they don’t listen or take on board constructive polite criticism it’s there narrative nothing else they don’t even reply anymore and some of their testers for pd5 are on level 15 that says it all they’ll probably delete this reply cheers
I think pushing to outside is the result of AutoSteering V5 that is not related to Pack Dynamics V5.
If you do event with PDV5 that has steering off this will not be happening…we have a group ride on Fridays with disabled Steering and this never happened.
Here is the full 90min ride and 30mins after the event in free ride
Steering behavior changes are part of PD5. The issue is steering and non-steering users behave differently even without any steering input.
@Jon can you clarify if this is intended?
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Believe me they are 2 seperate things…you have many PD5 races and group rides and this autosteering is not part of the PD5
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Doing a group ride and everyone hates PD5. @Jon can you do something about this please
Comments about getting dizzy/headaches from the aggressive left/right bouncing in a big pack
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Same experience and comments on the group ride I was on as well.
At one point the group was 2-3 wide on the very right side of the road and I was pushed all the way out to the yellow line by myself (I don’t have steering) but my avatar stayed in the upright position indicating I was getting a draft. Was I still getting a draft?
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Probably not. If you’re below a certain speed your avatar sits up anyway.
I was doing 35-40km/hr at the time, so not slow enough for that.
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They used to be steady before all the pace dynamics changes and the dynamic pacing.
I suppose you could set your trainer in erg mode controlled by a Garmin or other bike computer and adjust power via the Garmin touch screen. A few people do that.
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I like the dynamic pacing, PD5 is entirely different. Erg mode to get around PD issues isn’t my jam and I’ll just do an erg base workout if that’s my intent.
The alleged changes in PD5 do not exist. This is obviously based on misperception or exaggerated perception of things that do not exist. Maybe there are very small adjustments, but nothing else. I ride at the same speed with the same wattage, it gets confusing in large groups as always. What’s all the whining about? I don’t care if the avatar rides left, right, or in the middle. As long as I’m faster 
.
Something has changed. I’ve got steering and Im suddenly getting pushed out to the sides and struggling to get back in, even with non-steering riders to my side. Previously I would have moved over through them.
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