Why can’t we just keep the Pacer Bots at the same watts per kilo each and every week? I’m just not sure why they have to be a different effort each week. I get that they’re changing routes and yes there’s an effort increase and decrease along the route. If it’s programmed to sit at a controlled effort then calculate that across the route so it equals to the advertised range.
One week Coco is 2.3w/kg and then she’s 2.6w/kg?? Newcomers must get SO frustrated with this game with all of the incremental and undocumented changes. For me it’s a little different as I’ve been around for long enough to be in a continually frustrated state..LOL
Also it would be good to have the name of the Pacer Bot on the Companion App not just their w/kg.. surely it can’t be that hard? Shuji…
I’m pretty sure they’re always the same, but they are dynamic. I’m thinking they push 10% harder on the hills, and 10% less on the downhills. So when you look at the power they’re putting out, it might look different, depending on the terrain they are on, at that exact moment. Coco is advertised at 2.5, so there is probably a window of 2.3 - 2.8.
On the Companion App they’re often listed at different w/kg. Currently Coco is listed at 2.6w/kg on Flat Route. I also have a Companion App screen grab of her at 2.3w/kg on Tempus.
I do realise they fluctuate during their route completion - it’s the advertised w/kg im more concerned with. One week it’s 2.3w/kg for a Bot and the next week that same Bot is 2.6w/kg.
Coco is 2.6w/kg, and anything that you’re seeing differently is due to the dynamic pacing.
As you say, it’s confusing to newcomers when it’s her current pace that’s advertised instead of her normal pace on the flat. This has been raised before on the forums.
I don’t disagree this could be presented more clearly in the game. You see the power they are doing and by the time you join, it could be something else.
They are the same, but they just go up and down based on the gradient.
Constance can go from 315w at 4.2w/kg up to 345w for the hills.
But what can really change things up is the size and pace of the group. Today with Constance we had some folk doing 5.5w/kg or 6.5w/kg at the front - so the speeds went very high. When they backed off, things went back to more normal speed.
@iKapture - what you’re seeing in the Companion App or the Zwift home screen is what the bot is doing live at that moment. When they dynamically change going uphill or down, what’s shown there changes. I’m 95% certain that the bots aren’t changed speeds constantly.
I agree that the live, dynamic power shouldn’t be what’s “advertised.” I would argue that it should be the flat power, nothing fancier than that.
@iKapture
I don’t know if you remember when they were a new feature, but RoboPacers used a static pace regardless of the terrain. At that time - people complained that they dropped the Pacer on climbs because humans tend to increase their power output on climbs then soft-pedal the descents in many (not all) cases.
While no system is going to suit everyone’s preference all the time - we have no plans to get rid of dynamic pacing.
@shuji Has stopping the RoboPacer drafting been considered, i.e as if they were on a TT bike? I had yet another ride at the weekend ruined by someone who felt it was their job (their own words in the chat) to pull the bot.
I hate the dynamic pacing, have since it was introduced. There’s no reason a human needs to increase power on climbs. It’s not so big a change that it’s a huge issue though.
In any case, the dynamic pacing isn’t the point - what @iKapture is getting at is that the “advertised” power for each pace partner is the live value, and it changes depending on whether the PP is going up or down hill or flat. The PP should be labelled with their nominal power level, not live.
John, this would be a great idea! - then when someone says “yes, but Coco isn’t doing 2.6” we could say that’s the avg effort per hour. Where as now people have no idea what the avg is if the companion app has been viewed while Coco was rolling down an incline.
@Chris_D9 , I am almost positive that you will increase your output, when you come to a hill. I don’t care if you are indoors or outdoors. Just the way its.
I also don’t think people are trying to drag the bot and the group even faster. Unfortunately it’s just how pd works. I’m guessing most people, don’t even know they’re doing it.
Back when the pacers rode at a steady pace, I had no problem staying with them on hills, in fact the steady pace was exactly what I wanted from them, to help me not increase power on hills. All you had to do was ride with the pacer. I realize not everyone wants that, and I don’t think there is a solution that solves for both use cases without having pacers configured for both static and dynamic power.
It’s also been discussed that other riders being in front of a RP is super common with the lower half of wattage RPs, so I think you folks are pretty much discussing just the top couple of RPs where this is evidently not very desirable. ie. quick random screengrab from the Maria 2.2 at the moment
It’s with RPs that it can be fairly important to try and know what the best setting is for trainer difficulty. Based on the course’s elevation profile, typically about a 30% setting works best for me in that it usually means that if I just focus on maintaining the same cadence when the RP hits a hill, my power will naturally increase the right amount to maintain position relative to the RP.
