Hi @Douglass_Turner! Welcome to the forums and for bringing this query to our attention! Jose here from Zwift.
We’re sorry you’re facing this situation. So we can help you, could you please make a short video of at least 15 seconds showing the situation so we can review it thoroughly?
Once you have it, please contact us at support@zwift.com. We’ll be happy to help.
Is your weight much higher or lower than the pacer’s? The robopacer is 75kg and will boost power by up to 10% on hills and reduce power on declines (so you should see some changes in power) but those power swings will feel more dramatic the further away you are from them in terms of weight.
This doesn’t really need to be a video, this is to do with the way other riders overtake in groups:
they can blast through pushing riders ahead out of the way.
and without steering, if you are pushed out to the side and Zwift automatic draft-seeking is slow to bring you back into the draft (so you have to push much harder to keep up with the others)
the Pack Dynamics overtaking blocking prevents you from passing riders ahead unless you are doing much more power than they are
robopacers get the draft of other riders and can speed up quite a lot. If there are people doing steady 5w/kg at the front of the Constance group then everyone is going to have a much faster/more difficult ride than if everyone stays behind the robopacer.
To settle the pace down two things need to happen:
overtaking riders must go around riders ahead
robopacers should be put on the fastest TT bike (Cadex) and they should get no draft at all
This should settle the speeds down. The last point in bold is really necessary. If people racing at the front find the robopacer group then too slow, they can jump to a faster one.
That seems interesting. I use Robo Pacers 3-4 times weekly since they first came out and have never experienced this. Although I usually ride with pacers in the 2.0-3.X range. Maybe something with the lower pacers?
I would agree. Pretty sure I was riding with Bernie on Tempus Fugit. She would just take off. She appears to be following another rider that was surging ahead. She was definitely on a mission. Didn’t take long, and would slow down to normal pace. Until the next fast group would come along, and woosh her away.
I also commented to my wife. She said that she see’s that happen all the time. She thinks it was also happening with Miguel
The change for PP to use TT bikes has been a common request, in hopes of addressing the weird surges mentioned. But I’m not aware of any zwift acknowledgment - historically they’ve tweaked the pack dynamics… I guess for apple to apple metrics comparison. Which is likely more complex now that frames can be updated…
Keep in mind that PP still use the Tron frame, which recently transitioned from all rounder bike to aero so climbs suck and flat will be faster
That happens with all robopacers - they really take off with the draft of faster riders. Putting them on the Cadex TT at level 5 upgrade would prevent this from happening.
The robopacer would still be fairly fast but wouldn’t be dragged along in the draft by riders surging the pace (which we are told never happens of course)…
But hasn’t Zwift said that an RP suffers the same draft dynamics as anyone else? I haven’t experienced this issue, but if RPs are supposedly subject to the same game physics as the rest of us, but they’re not – then that seems to be what Zwift should fix.
If the issue is universal (applies to anyone), then a RP on a TT bike, just means that the humans riding with the RP, when passed by faster riders will be the ones dragged along, but then would now be leaving the RP in the dust?
part of riding with a pace group is that you will sometimes get ahead and sometimes fall behind – there’s a natural ebb and flow especially when you get in and out of the draft.
however! i do find that there are places where bots surge. it’s not super clear to me what’s going on. the best example i have is riding on any of the routes that go up to the kaiju claw in makuri islands. the steep bit just before getting to the claw (where there is often a translucent arch for route completion) makes no sense. if i get ahead of the bot and put out more power than the bot will do on an uphill (think 3.1wkg where coco does 2.9 max, same weight) – the bot ALWAYS catches me here on the uphill. it doesn’t seem possible since i’ve never put out less power than the bot, even in the leadup, so there must be something funny going on in that spot.
there are other spots that behave like that, too, but that’s the one that really boggles my mind. i remember way back when neokyo was first added, the distance of the connector road between umezi and neokyo was too short for the bot, and what we experienced in the group was a monster acceleration of the bot for a short period – might be the same cause here?
